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Thread: Why brain dead means really dead

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    It's a medical question that needs to be answered by doctors. The average person on the street is not qualified to make the call on whether someone is dead or not in non-obvious cases.

    If it were simply about respecting the wishes of the family I'd be all for leaving her on the ventilator for as long as they want but it isn't that simple. We don't have a limitless supply of doctors and nurses and equipment and hospital beds. What happens when a "legally declared dead" person is supported on equipment that a "legally still alive" needs to stay alive? What happens if all of a sudden every parent/husband/wife argues that their "legally declared dead" child/spouse be left on a ventilator? And what about cost? I'd bet her medical bills are running into millions of dollars at this point. Unless they're wealthy the parents are paying for it. Is it right to force others to swallow millions in costs in an ultimately futile exercise?
    I'm sure the family is not thinking about that right now. They are just trying to come to terms with the loss of their child. Their entire world has just collapsed around them.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I'm sure the family is not thinking about that right now. They are just trying to come to terms with the loss of their child. Their entire world has just collapsed around them.
    Indeed. I think they're in serious denial. This is a typical reaction to tragic news. I believe my parents went through denial when my youngest brother was born with Down Syndrome. They got more than one "second opinion" from doctors, but eventually came to terms with my brother's disability.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I wonder how much her obesity and overall health played a role in her death. General anesthesia can be tricky sometimes with young yet large patients I would assume.
    Not so much her entire body being large, but short thick necks are very problematic.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Not so much her entire body being large, but short thick necks are very problematic.
    Well, I was just considering that, given her large body habitus, it might take more anesthesia to put her under, and the fact that the organs and body of a 13-year-old are not fully matured, I wondered if that might have some potential negative effects.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Unless you get a 2nd opinion and THEN brain dead is DEAD dead. How many EEG's can be wrong?
    It is really not just about an EEG. A clinician that allows a flat eeg to decide brain death wrong.

    If you have a specialist that follows accepted protocols and declares brain death and a second one deciding the same thing......

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    And who says that she is being compared to a 60 year old man? Is "60 Year Old Man" the average for brain dead victims?

    I am simply stating the facts that have been presented in this case that the heart usually stops within 72 hours. All accounts are that she was only on a breather and IV. As the LA Times article clearly states, all the mother wanted, if her daughter was truly dead, was for her heart to stop beating on its own. It didn't.

    You are now throwing in a bunch of pointless guesswork for why her heart has kept beating. If it was beating artificially then by the mother's own statements it would have been stopped.
    I am simply saying that no matter what you may have read, there really is no hard and fast rule for a body staying alive after brain death. You have millions of different types of situations that could potentially make that time frame shorter or longer. McMath would be on the spectrum of her body being maintained longer because she was young, without catastrophic pre-existing conditions, or major trauma.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, I was just considering that, given her large body habitus, it might take more anesthesia to put her under, and the fact that the organs and body of a 13-year-old are not fully matured, I wondered if that might have some potential negative effects.
    Oh, for sure the anesthesia requirements could be larger, and not knowing what else they gave her through her IV, there could have certainly been lingering effects - but not this long.

    I was thinking in terms of whatever crisis happened and the bleeding, that sent her into the spiral might have been more difficult to control.

    But as for risk of surgery - yup major risk.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I saw a documentary a man who had a car accident and was in a coma for 19 years and woke up. He's kind of "slow" but he can walk and talk and he lives. I think this is a PERSONAL decision and not for you or I or anyone else to say. The family will "pull the plug" when THEY are ready.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-awak...years-in-coma/
    To be in a coma is not the same as to be brain dead.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    The word "miracle" is the single most abused word in the English language. Miracle comeback in sports, miracle finish in racing, It's a miracle we didn't get hurt, miracle weight loss, miracle cat fall from a tree, miracle achievement in science. Get the feeling there are no miracles?
    A strange, illogical conclusion.

    From your post, the logical conclusion would be that too many things that are not actual Miracles are wrongfully referred to as Miracles.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    A strange, illogical conclusion.

    From your post, the logical conclusion would be that too many things that are not actual Miracles are wrongfully referred to as Miracles.
    I thought it's what he said?

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