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Thread: Why brain dead means really dead

  1. #21
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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Some families will never do it, in the mean time a veggie is costing thousands and thousands of dollars a day. It is a horribly sad situation, and its very ethically complicated. Some stuff is just more important than PR. It aint really good for the family pretending the patitent is still alive either, situations like this are all bad. they would terminally wean the patient and the patient may or may not breath on their own. I am bettting if declared brain dead she would not. Terrible situation.
    I don't think it's ethically complicated at all. A court should be able to have the plug pulled and the *body* (because her conscious/personhood is gone) removed, whether the parents agree or not.

    I know in the UK, there are cases where courts will do exactly this.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Well yea, I agree kinda. In these cases, I think the family is really the patient. Sure, intellectually the doc should walk in, say the patient is dead,pull the plug and walk out. But I think in these cases the family is the real patient.
    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    I don't think it's ethically complicated at all. A court should be able to have the plug pulled and the *body* (because her conscious/personhood is gone) removed, whether the parents agree or not.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Well yea, I agree kinda. In these cases, I think the family is really the patient. Sure, intellectually the doc should walk in, say the patient is dead,pull the plug and walk out. But I think in these cases the family is the real patient.
    Since when do we spend untold millions on medically pointless hospitalization just to protect someone's feelings? Even the living, including mentally ill and the elderly, get nickel and dimed and booted out with the quickness. Should mothers who just gave birth get to stay in their bed with their newborn indefinitely because it "feels right"? What you're describing is not at all what i've come to understand as standard operating procedure - "managed care" - in the american health care system.

    We become such hypocrites when it comes time to honor "parents' rights" and religious scruples.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Oh, I understand brain dead. When you need a ventilator and feeding tube? That's pretty much brain dead unless you've been put into a drug-induced coma for one reason or another. I'd guess there are times when someone is in a coma that they'll come out of it when, for example, brain swelling subsides.

    But when doctors, who are profit motivated, say it's time? Believe them. Stop torturing yourself and others.
    Doctors are all profit motivated? They're all right?

    Which ones - the ones that created this situation to begin with or the ones who created the methods by which life can be sustained artificially?

    Doctors are humans - and can be wrong. No doubt, those incidences in which they are wrong are central to the family's thoughts and feelings, here. As is the fact that Doctors committed the child to the surgery and Doctors did the surgery . . . you know, it's a round Robin of Doctors this and Doctors that.
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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Yea, I am not saying you are wrong, I have just seen many of these cases, you wanna come in a pull the plug?
    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Since when do we spend untold millions on medically pointless hospitalization just to protect someone's feelings? Even the living, including mentally ill and the elderly, get nickel and dimed and booted out with the quickness. Should mothers who just gave birth get to stay in their bed with their newborn indefinitely because it "feels right"? What you're describing is not at all what i've come to understand as standard operating procedure - "managed care" - in the american health care system.

    We become such hypocrites when it comes time to honor "parents' rights" and religious scruples.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Yea, I am not saying you are wrong, I have just seen many of these cases, you wanna come in a pull the plug?
    I would absolutely come do it after giving them time to say goodbye. Might even help them get over their denial.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    You go, these cases are always horrible, and your way might be best.
    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    I would absolutely come do it after giving them time to say goodbye. Might even help them get over their denial.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    She was just waiting to be old enough to run for office.

  9. #29
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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Life is so fragile and so much can go wrong. It's a miracle that we are even here at all, and that the myriad of bodily systems work together to produce this phenomenon that we call aliveness.

    I find it a bit strange though that even the most religious people, when confronted with someone who is brain dead and on life support, still relate to that body as if the person is going to come back any second. Didn't their spirituality teach them that the consciousness is basically gone already? There's no one in there, I'm afraid, and despite what popular media makes it seem like, even those people who wake up from lengthy comas tend to come back not quite right.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    As the article states, a brain dead person's heart will usually stop within 3 days of becoming brain dead. So on that alone the family has hope because it is now into the third or fourth week and the heart is still beating on its own. It's certainly an indicator of some brain stem activity.

    If she is truly brain dead then she will die soon from heart failure, which is all that the mother is asking for. A brain dead person is not like someone in a coma or even in a vegetative state because in those cases the brain still regulates the body. We aren't talking about months on a respirator if she truly is brain dead.
    Actually depending on how else she is supported, this is not actually accurate.

    If she has her blood pressure supported and she is kept warm, three days may not be accurate.

    Remember, a lot of folks who wind up brain dead are either older or have had traumatic brain injury - or have multiple massive acute insults to their body. For a brain dead person she is relatively healthy. Her obesity would have taken decades to cause major cardiovascular issue.

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