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Thread: Why brain dead means really dead

  1. #91
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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tiki View Post
    I thought it's what he said?
    Doesn't he say "there are no miracles?"

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I saw a documentary a man who had a car accident and was in a coma for 19 years and woke up. He's kind of "slow" but he can walk and talk and he lives. I think this is a PERSONAL decision and not for you or I or anyone else to say. The family will "pull the plug" when THEY are ready.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-awak...years-in-coma/
    I remember this case. It was bantered about the talk shows and news papers when Terri Schiavo was
    in the news.

    If I remember correctly, his deep coma (what laypeople think of as coma totally out, not awake, not aware)was only for a month or so. He was in a minimally conscious state.

    Not a deep coma. Clearly no where near brain death. He was a person who might have been able to interact with his surroundings during that time, although his family may not have recognized a grunt or moan as "interacting". When he finally was able to say "pepsi" it was a leap, but not a leap from a down and out coma. Traumatic head injuries are substantially different in how they recover from non traumatic brain injuries.

    I was always disgusted to see this case -that was touted by those surrounding Schiavo's parent's) - as proof that Terri could recover. The cases were in no way remotely similar.It was sad that folks were making the family believe this was possible for their daughter .Not just sad. Cruel.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    I remember this case. It was bantered about the talk shows and news papers when Terri Schiavo was
    in the news.

    If I remember correctly, his deep coma (what laypeople think of as coma totally out, not awake, not aware)was only for a month or so. He was in a minimally conscious state.

    Not a deep coma. Clearly no where near brain death. He was a person who might have been able to interact with his surroundings during that time, although his family may not have recognized a grunt or moan as "interacting". When he finally was able to say "pepsi" it was a leap, but not a leap from a down and out coma. Traumatic head injuries are substantially different in how they recover from non traumatic brain injuries.

    I was always disgusted to see this case -that was touted by those surrounding Schiavo's parent's) - as proof that Terri could recover. The cases were in no way remotely similar.It was sad that folks were making the family believe this was possible for their daughter .Not just sad. Cruel.
    Well how would anyone know if she isn't just in a deep coma as opposed to being brain dead. Doctors have misdiagnosed a deep coma as brain death before. It's not like it never happens. Seriously, you can just google it and see multiple cases. Not that this is the case here, but it's not impossible, and no matter what anyone else thinks or says it is a personal decision for the family, and more than likely they just need some time to come to terms with this.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well how would anyone know if she isn't just in a deep coma as opposed to being brain dead. Doctors have misdiagnosed a deep coma as brain death before. It's not like it never happens. Seriously, you can just google it and see multiple cases. Not that this is the case here, but it's not impossible, and no matter what anyone else thinks or says it is a personal decision for the family, and more than likely they just need some time to come to terms with this.
    Brain death is NOT a quick diagnosis.

    Here is a link that will answer your questions.

    American Academy of Neurology Guidelines for Brain Death Determination | Welcome to Clinical Operations | Life Alliance Organ Recovery Agency at Miller School of Medicine

    When folks have linked evidence of misdiagnosis of brain death, it seems to be issues with the process - inexperienced (or with a harvesting agenda) clinicians not following proper protocols. If there is any thought that the clinicians at Childrens Hospital have not followed protocols properly, I am not hearing about it.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well how would anyone know if she isn't just in a deep coma as opposed to being brain dead. Doctors have misdiagnosed a deep coma as brain death before. It's not like it never happens. Seriously, you can just google it and see multiple cases. Not that this is the case here, but it's not impossible, and no matter what anyone else thinks or says it is a personal decision for the family, and more than likely they just need some time to come to terms with this.
    The medical report submitted to the court said that the girl's body was already decomposing. This is not a personal decision for the family. The girl is dead and her body is rotting. It is a public health issue for the doctors, nurses, and other patients in the hospital.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    EKG is heart. EEG is what you are thinking. I have been in the field 25 years or more, and have not seen a mistaken death diagnosis.
    Gotcha. My mom was a nurse so I have a general understanding of the equipment through her. I have read about false diagnosis before, but they are admittedly very rare, to the point that most people in the medical field will never see one.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    EKG is heart. EEG is what you are thinking. I have been in the field 25 years or more, and have not seen a mistaken death diagnosis.
    30 plus years for me - same thing. Never a mistaken death diagnosis.

    The people surrounding the family of this child - well intentioned or not - are prolonging and complicating their grieving process - compounding the tragedy of it all.

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I'm sure the family is not thinking about that right now. They are just trying to come to terms with the loss of their child. Their entire world has just collapsed around them.
    I'm sure they're not either and in their position I can't say that wouldn't do the exact same thing. But that's all the more reason to take them out of the equation when determining whether the child has died or not.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    The medical report submitted to the court said that the girl's body was already decomposing. This is not a personal decision for the family. The girl is dead and her body is rotting. It is a public health issue for the doctors, nurses, and other patients in the hospital.
    Link please?

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    Re: Why brain dead means really dead

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Link please?
    Link. From the article:

    "His comments came as papers issued for a district court case to discuss the original injunction, due to expire today, revealed the mountain the family have to climb. Dr Heidi Flori, a Children's Hospital Oakland paediatrician, wrote that there were clear indications that Jahi's body was deteriorating. She said that because of brain stem damage, Jahi could not regulate life sustaining functions such as heart rate, temperature and breathing. The tissues under her skin were losing their elasticity, and her muscles were contracting, she said. Her blood pressure spiked but was gradually declining and was now half what it was, she added, and blankets were needed to maintain a constant temperature."

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