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Thread: Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For

  1. #171
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    Re: Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok Peter, I want to break this down further, because you have made some rather insulting assumptions here that I don't think you intended, but none the less exist. So....



    I worked 20 years, and maintained a clean driving record for that 20 years while driving 150,000 miles per year, and driving everything imaginable, long hours, for little pay, and OTR (Over the Road) for years to get to the point I am now. For you to say, or better dismiss that my salary now as compared to a minimum wage McD's worker with less than 6 months at that job, that they should make only $20K less than me is ridiculously insulting. What makes that McD's worker worth that much?


    It is "unsettling", your word here not mine, because when you have an entry level job like fast food, or grocery store stocking, or WalMart worker, and their wage just arbitrarily raised to levels that many paths of other high school educated workforce that took them years to achieve, just because you do a couple of things...

    1. You take away incentive for people to move on from these jobs, thereby increasing the unemployment problem for those entering the workforce in the future.

    2. You instantly increase the cost of goods and services, because if the average fast food entry level worker is making $19.23 per hour based on a 40 hour work week to arrive at your $40K number, then the cost of every other worker out there in jobs also rises to applicable rates, ie; my job for example then rises to $76.92 per hour....And the cost of every good, or service in turn rises...So, in the end that $40K all of the sudden buy's the same as $16K does today...Then what? Raise it to $100K?



    My taxes are constantly going up. Last year, I made about the same as this year...Last year I paid about $8k in withholding federally, and this year, I paid over $10K So what are you talking about?



    Peter, I assume you are a believing man, after all you used to use the Catholic symbol for Christ as your avatar. Stealing from those whom have succeeded, and redistributing to those whom have not, is a failing strategy...The best way to bring these people up, is to have a more open model of capitalism.



    I would ask you just who the hell do you think you are to say that someone else can, or can't afford something? What an arrogant, assuming position to take. The "wealthy" now pay something like 76% of all federal income taxes collected, and 47% pay nothing at all, and in fact get a return in the form of "earned income credits" (what a joke of a name) And you want more?

    Why would ANYONE with the ability to create a successful business in this day and age do that here with thinking like yours? In your world success is punished.

    I agree that hard work should be rewarded. I just don't think capitalism, left to its own devices, rewards people fairly. For example, given what you said you make, it happens to be the case that my own salary is twice as much as yours, and I just turned 30. I also don't work nearly those long hours. Would you say that's fair?

    You think you deserve more than the people flipping burgers, but that cuts both ways. I'll tell you what I think - I don't think I deserve to make more than you, and I think capitalism, while having many benefits, tends to reward the wrong people in the wrong amounts all while leaving a lot of good people behind.

    Nobody can dispute that capitalism is by far the best system ever created when it comes to generating wealth, on the whole. But this blind faith in capitalism to correctly distribute that capital to the right people is misplaced.

    Take a step back and really think about it. If you're born 7 foot tall and you're good at dribbling a basketball, you'll make several times more than a soldier who puts his life on the line for this country. In my mind, it would take some real mental gymnastics to try to justify that one.

    Or think about how underpaid nurses are.

    I am a Christian, and that's why I believe we need to take care of people first. We're all equal in God's eyes so why should anybody scrape by on barely nothing if they're willing to work? Lord knows, there's a lot of work that needs to be done.

    I just think we're way too focused on the almighty dollar and we forget to put people first.

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    Re: Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Stop dancing, I didn't say novelty meant a good idea. Your ideas (im sure you think by pure coincidence) are simply already discredited neo marxist dribble.

    The "red boogeyman" attempt to distract is also bogus. Marxism is alive and well.
    Just because you want to call something "marxist" doesn't make it a bad idea.

    I'll be on record though: Communism was evil. Reagan was absolutely right to stand up to it. But what was evil about it? The fact that it didn't allow freedom of religion, the fact that it started wars of expansion, the fact that people were starving in bread lines while the communists feasted in their homes. The system was hypocritical, intolerant, and violent.

    That has nothing to do with raising income taxes on the top bracket. Apples and oranges.

  3. #173
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    Re: Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For

    There is a reason alcoholism is rampant in Russia. When you impart this illogic on people, cram them all into 600-sq-ft apartments in mega complexes and institute government-run "fairness", you completely kill the human spirit, creativity, zest for life, and freedom to achieve.

    I mean how many examples, past and present, do these people need in order to understand this? LOL

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    Re: Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    There is a reason alcoholism is rampant in Russia. When you impart this illogic on people, cram them all into 600-sq-ft apartments in mega complexes and institute government-run "fairness", you completely kill the human spirit, creativity, zest for life, and freedom to achieve.

    I mean how many examples, past and present, do these people need in order to understand this? LOL
    Russians were alcoholics long before the Soviet Union.

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    Re: Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Just because you want to call something "marxist" doesn't make it a bad idea.

    I'll be on record though: Communism was evil. Reagan was absolutely right to stand up to it. But what was evil about it? The fact that it didn't allow freedom of religion, the fact that it started wars of expansion, the fact that people were starving in bread lines while the communists feasted in their homes. The system was hypocritical, intolerant, and violent.

    That has nothing to do with raising income taxes on the top bracket. Apples and oranges.
    Marxism is discredited. Even its attenuated european form results in workers who have worse conditions and higher unemployment. The US has the highest producing workers in the world and a better standard of living despite not having the unions and socialist baggage europe carries around. There is no better delivery vehicle from poverty.

    All stunning facts that neo marxists must deflect to avoid.

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    Re: Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Marxism is discredited. Even its attenuated european form results in workers who have worse conditions and higher unemployment. The US has the highest producing workers in the world and a better standard of living despite not having the unions and socialist baggage europe carries around. There is no better delivery vehicle from poverty.

    All stunning facts that neo marxists must deflect to avoid.
    European workers are better off. They have free health care not tied to their job, ultimate job security (impossible to get fired), six weeks minimum if vacation, and wages comparable to the USA

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    Re: Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    European workers are better off. They have free health care not tied to their job, ultimate job security (impossible to get fired), six weeks minimum if vacation, and wages comparable to the USA
    No they do not. And they also have much higher unemployment, and pay a much higher percentage of wages to both the unions and govt, and the increased costs are passed on to the consumer. Nothing is free, even if you want free stuff.

    Its funny you mention a bunch of marxist dogma.

    PLEASE do some reading.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_average_wage


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona..._United_States

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_average_wage

    All done with a substantialy lower union rate.

    Like I said- discredited neomarxist ideas.
    Last edited by US Conservative; 01-10-14 at 07:18 PM.

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    Re: Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    No they do not. And they also have much higher unemployment, and pay a much higher percentage of wages to both the unions and govt, and the increased costs are passed on to the consumer. Nothing is free, even if you want free stuff.

    Its funny you mention a bunch of marxist dogma.

    Well, I have a lot of family in Europe so I'm just telling you how it is. For example, my uncle is an IT help desk guy in Sweden. He lives in a small house with his family, and he and his wife got nearly a year if paid paternity/maternity leave when they had kids, they get all doctor visits paid for by the government, they take long vacations to Brazil every year because they get 6 weeks each, he's got a ton of hobbies because he doesn't work himself to death.

    It's a pretty nice life.

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    Re: Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Sadly, the zero sum fallacy has been sold and bought by too many. In addition, the wealthy and successful have all been stereotyped at evil greedy Wall Street types. I don't see this mindset changing anytime soon and sooner or later, we'll start doing stupid things like the French and the exodus will begin.
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    And who pays for all of this?
    The "Zero sum fallacy" as you put it is the exact defence of the "And who is going to pay for all that?" argument to any form of government subsidy. So if one wants to be intellectually consistent they cannot claim both that Zero sum is a fallacy and somehow there must always be a pay-for as it is the same concept just applied to different situations

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    Re: Five Economic Reforms Millennials Should Be Fighting For

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Well, I have a lot of family in Europe so I'm just telling you how it is.
    No. Show me data and stats-hopefully to dont intend to appear to be advocating policy without data to back you.

    My dad is a european immigrant, we have lots of family still there. Its not all sunshine and rainbows.

    Facts, friend-put em up. Its too important for "well people I know say".

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