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Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty[W:101]

Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

Were I POTUS; I would have him tried, probably convicted and then (assuming no further evidence against him comes to light) pardon him after one day in jail...no matter what his sentence.

Then I would invite him to supper at the White House.

Though hopefully all this would take place after my second term had started.
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

Very careful? They broke rules and knew they were breaking them and didnt do **** about it!

No, the rules were broken and the incidents dealt with promptly. Rules always get broken, in every organization. That doesn't make the entire organization corrupt.
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

No, the rules were broken and the incidents dealt with promptly. Rules always get broken, in every organization. That doesn't make the entire organization corrupt.

:lamo If 3 years is "promptly".
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

Very careful? They broke rules and knew they were breaking them and didnt do **** about it!


And the broken rules get blamed on typos! It's funny watching the shapes some of these guys bend themselves into to defend corruption in government. And why??
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

:lamo If 3 years is "promptly".

Each incident was dealt with at the time. The document you cite is a log of incidents. It in no way indicates corruption, let alone widespread conspiracy.
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

No, the rules were broken and the incidents dealt with promptly. Rules always get broken, in every organization. That doesn't make the entire organization corrupt.

No they werent they tried to cover up their tracks:
"National Security Agency personnel regularly searched call tracking data using thousands of numbers that had not been vetted in accordance with court-ordered procedures, according to previously secret legal filings and court opinions released by the Obama administration Tuesday.
The agency also falsely certified to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court that analysts and technicians were complying with the court’s insistence that searches only be done with numbers that had a “reasonable, articulable suspicion” of terrorism, according to a senior intelligence official who briefed reporters prior to release of the documents ."


Read more: NSA broke rules on call-tracking program, court filings show - POLITICO.com
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

No they werent they tried to cover up their tracks:
"National Security Agency personnel regularly searched call tracking data using thousands of numbers that had not been vetted in accordance with court-ordered procedures, according to previously secret legal filings and court opinions released by the Obama administration Tuesday.
The agency also falsely certified to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court that analysts and technicians were complying with the court’s insistence that searches only be done with numbers that had a “reasonable, articulable suspicion” of terrorism, according to a senior intelligence official who briefed reporters prior to release of the documents ."


Read more: NSA broke rules on call-tracking program, court filings show - POLITICO.com


Your source:

Director of National Intelligence James Clapper emphasized Tuesday that the breach of procedure was discovered by the NSA on its own initiative and, once the violation was found, was promptly disclosed to the court and Congress.
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

The one group who started this whole so-called "NSA abuse of power", the GOP neo-cons, has been rather silent lately, YES ?
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

Snowden shouldn't get the death penalty, but he shouldn't get a slap on the wrist either. I'm strongly opposed to leaking secrets that have the potential to harm national security. Maybe it's because I work in government, but I don't have the same knee jerk negative reaction to this whole NSA thing that most people seem to have. Obama needs to make an example of Snowden.

As Anthony Hopkins said in the film Nixon, "we have to stop these goddamned leaks, this is no way to run a government." Obama needs to meet with his cabinet just like that scene in the film, and have a similar discussion. What if every government worker who has a political agenda or chip on his shoulder decided to leak secrets? We would have absolute anarchy on our hands. Then you have more traitors like Jonathan Pollard, who claimed what he did wasn't wrong because he gave the secrets he stole to a U.S ally, damaging national security. Someone has to draw the line somewhere.

An angry President Nixon meets with his Cabinet - YouTube
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

The one group who started this whole so-called "NSA abuse of power", the GOP neo-cons, has been rather silent lately, YES ?

Hey, I found something I could agree with you on, kinda.
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

Your source:

Somethign is messed up when you can break your own rules for 3 years and not notice.
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

Snowden shouldn't get the death penalty, but he shouldn't get a slap on the wrist either. I'm strongly opposed to leaking secrets that have the potential to harm national security. Maybe it's because I work in government, but I don't have the same knee jerk negative reaction to this whole NSA thing that most people seem to have. Obama needs to make an example of Snowden.

As Anthony Hopkins said in the film Nixon, "we have to stop these goddamned leaks, this is no way to run a government." Obama needs to meet with his cabinet just like that scene in the film, and have a similar discussion. What if every government worker who has a political agenda or chip on his shoulder decided to leak secrets? We would have absolute anarchy on our hands. Then you have more traitors like Jonathan Pollard, who claimed what he did wasn't wrong because he gave the secrets he stole to a U.S ally, damaging national security. Someone has to draw the line somewhere.

An angry President Nixon meets with his Cabinet - YouTube

Why is it that people continue to advance the myth that Snowden's disclosures compromises our nations security. It's embarrassing. That's it.

Nixon said "if the president does it, it's not illegal" **** Nixon. The president does not have that carte Blanche latitude. He's bound by the constitution!
 
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Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

It wouldn't be politics would it.
I go back to the Amash amendment only to show the two coalitions,
Libertarians like Paul and Liberals like Sanders versus Neo-cons like Feinstein/McCain/Graham/Boehner/Hoyer, etc.
Hey, I found something I could agree with you on, kinda.
Another one down this line is the Gillibrand amendment on military rape opposed by fellow DEM Sen. McCaskill who is worthless on this issue.
See, here I oppose the Military brass.

Another huge military conundrum is what TF to do with ultra-expensive hardware like F-35s and IKE's "military complex" that he warned of.
Then we have the problem with ballooning military pensions and benefits
from the VA such as TRi-Care and Vets/dependents thinking they are off-limits.
And the untold effect on all public pensions from LGBT partners and children jumping on board.

My Mom is a dependent of my dead Air Force Dad and I make up what Medicaid, SS, Civil Service, and Tri-Care don't.
That is what a son does and we need to means-test the siblings of public pensioneers.

As a teacher pensioneer, I get 75% of my last four-year average, unsustainable.
However, if all one million retired public pensioneers in Illinois were "scaled" back to say 70%, we would gain billions for today's kids.

As you now see with a few of my views, I may be a Democrat,
but I hold opinions ranging from lib to mod to con, as well as prog to reg, and OWS to TEA .
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

It wouldn't be politics would it.
I go back to the Amash amendment only to show the two coalitions,
Libertarians like Paul and Liberals like Sanders versus Neo-cons like Feinstein/McCain/Graham/Boehner/Hoyer, etc.

Another one down this line is the Gillibrand amendment on military rape opposed by fellow DEM Sen. McCaskill who is worthless on this issue.
See, here I oppose the Military brass.

Another huge military conundrum is what TF to do with ultra-expensive hardware like F-35s and IKE's "military complex" that he warned of.
Then we have the problem with ballooning military pensions and benefits
from the VA such as TRi-Care and Vets/dependents thinking they are off-limits.
And the untold effect on all public pensions from LGBT partners and children jumping on board.

My Mom is a dependent of my dead Air Force Dad and I make up what Medicaid, SS, Civil Service, and Tri-Care don't.
That is what a son does and we need to means-test the siblings of public pensioneers.

As a teacher pensioneer, I get 75% of my last four-year average, unsustainable.
However, if all one million retired public pensioneers in Illinois were "scaled" back to say 70%, we would gain billions for today's kids.

As you now see with a few of my views, I may be a Democrat,
but I hold opinions ranging from lib to mod to con, as well as prog to reg, and OWS to TEA .

I don't know about all that, just your statement that many (certainly not most or all) conservatives are indeed quiet on the NSA problem.
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

No, you have no evidence of that A and B, he and Glenn Greenwald made clear at the outset that the Gaurdians attorneys as well as attorneys from at least one outside source reviewed what would be disclosed to ensure that nothing that would jeopardize national security would be released. Additionally, it has been pointed out tirelessly that the disclosures only embarrass the NSA and by extension the federal government because they make plain for all to see that American citizens fourth amendment rights have been/are now being VIOLATED and abroad that Angela Merkel can't have an intimate conversation with her husband in private. Many of us appreciate these disclosures and will raise hell both to and with those who have the authority and means to press a "genuine reform" within the NSA.

Well, I wouldn't believe either one of those leftist loons. He went to RUSSIA, for God's sake! Still one of the more repressive and secretive regimes in the world - or at least it is to those of us not consumed by hatred of the United States. He's given them everything they want. He or his buddy Greenwald are not likely to admit that, now are they? It might tarnish that halo that you folks have put on him.
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

Perhaps the line between traitor and whistleblower is finer than we think. I view Snowden as a whistleblower and whistleblowing as a positive act. The fact that he broke laws in doing so could well be the fault of the laws, not Snowden. I don't see the NSA reforming itself so, sadly, the whistleblowing wasn't effective. What a government we have, huh?

And you rejoice that he took his data file of top secret information to Russia? Or are you another one of those libertarians who hates his government so much he's happy that the Russians now are privy to national security information?
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

Great point. And I would add to that, if a government employee blows the "whistle" on wrong doing (and the NSA programs Snowden is revealing have been declared such by Americans from janitors to pundits and medical doctors to ex presidents, constitutional lawyers, law professors, politicians on both sides of the isle, etc.) then the service he has done trumps a rule or law that he has broken. This is what whistle blower protection is all about.

Obama promised as candidate that as president he would strengthen whistle blower protections, but in fact I believe he has prosecuted more than all his predecessors, perhaps combined.

In addition, I can say that as the owner of a medical billing company, besides HIPPA and a host of other regulations we have to abide by, we are forbidden by law to block or attempt to block any of our employees from reporting a violation of any laws, rules or regulations to the authorities. And that's not all, we are REQUIRED to provide our employees a map for doing so. Yes! Each one of our employees has in a file in their desk (along with other materials) detailed instructions of who to call, along with the phone number/s to report the violation/s they have witnessed or been instructed themselves to commit.

But isn't it always the case that the government imposes upon the citizenry onerous rules that they themselves never intend to be held accountable.

And we have people visit this board almost daily to inform us that Snowden is a traitor. I agree with another poster that they are the real enemy.

Snowden is a traitor. The fact the he took everything he had to Russia is proof of that. And those who don't have a problem with the Russians having access to U.S. Top Secret information are either fools or traitors themselves.
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

Well, I wouldn't believe either one of those leftist loons. He went to RUSSIA, for God's sake! Still one of the more repressive and secretive regimes in the world - or at least it is to those of us not consumed by hatred of the United States. He's given them everything they want. He or his buddy Greenwald are not likely to admit that, now are they? It might tarnish that halo that you folks have put on him.

What has Snowden given Russia?
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

If Snowden releases classified information so Americans can see how their government is violating their privacy rights, how exactly is Snowden then equated to a treason aiding Russia?

Is it the contention of some that he is telling the Russians things he won't tell us?

Is there any proof that is the case?

If you mean have the Russians come out and said 'thanks for all the top secret information, Ed', then of course that proof does not exist. However, if you think the Russians had an asset like Snowden within their country and didn't get every piece of useful information they could get out of him - probably volunteered willingly - then you must believe the Russians are either fools or the most noble regime in the history of the earth.
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

What has Snowden given Russia?

Well, the Russians aren't exactly broadcasting it and neither is he. But if you don't think they've profited immensely from this traitor's actions, then you are a fool. Do you expect either one of them to admit that Ed has been an intelligence bonanza for them? What world do you live in?
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

And you rejoice that he took his data file of top secret information to Russia? Or are you another one of those libertarians who hates his government so much he's happy that the Russians now are privy to national security information?

You haven't a clue what's going on and you certainly don't know what a libertarian is. Will you please tell us what national security secrets Russia received from Snowden?
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

Were I POTUS; I would have him tried, probably convicted and then (assuming no further evidence against him comes to light) pardon him after one day in jail...no matter what his sentence.

Then I would invite him to supper at the White House.

Though hopefully all this would take place after my second term had started.

Yes, by al means lets celebrate those who defect to Russian with top secret information. Great plan!
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

You haven't a clue what's going on and you certainly don't know what a libertarian is. Will you please tell us what national security secrets Russia received from Snowden?

You continue with this nonsense. How would anybody know what secrets he gave them? He's not going to admit it and neither are they. But there's a reason they welcomed him with open arms. But I expect your one of those 'we're just as bad as they are so its good that they have our secrets' folks.
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

Snowden is a traitor. The fact the he took everything he had to Russia is proof of that. And those who don't have a problem with the Russians having access to U.S. Top Secret information are either fools or traitors themselves.

You have no clue what Snowden carried with him to Russia, if anything. There are at least three copies of everything he took in various different locations according to Greenwald.
 
Re: Rand Paul: Edward Snowden doesn’t deserve the death penalty

You continue with this nonsense. How would anybody know what secrets he gave them? He's not going to admit it and neither are they. But there's a reason they welcomed him with open arms. But I expect your one of those 'we're just as bad as they are so its good that they have our secrets' folks.

You've developed a hatred for Snowden based on an assumption. I think accepting Snowden temporarily was just a rub, particularly at the time things weren't to rosy between Obama and Putin, they were quarreling and it was a nice poke, probably nothing more.
 
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