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Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work

ludin

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Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work : NPR

The stakes were high and the vote was close as Boeing production workers agreed to concede some benefits in order to secure assembly of the new 777X airplane for the Puget Sound region.

A little bit of back story. Boeing was looking to build the new 777x in WA. it has secured all the other unions except for the machinist unions.
They were opposing the contract on several accounts. They rejected the first one and boeing came back with better raises. the largest sticking point was the move from a pension to a defined contribution plan similar to a 401k.

Beoing had also stated that if the union rejected this bid that they would move to building the new jets to a new plant in which 22 states were already taking bids to get.

the local union in washington lost the last bid for the 777 dreamliner to much the same reason. those planes are being built in SC.
the vote ended up 51 -49 against with most of the yes votes coming from younger union members that were looking to keep their jobs.

the local union was under a lot of pressure not only from local government but from the national union leaders to accept the contract.

the contract states that the union cannot strike until 2024 when the contract is up.
congrats for younger people in wanting to keep their jobs.
 
Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work : NPR



A little bit of back story. Boeing was looking to build the new 777x in WA. it has secured all the other unions except for the machinist unions.
They were opposing the contract on several accounts. They rejected the first one and boeing came back with better raises. the largest sticking point was the move from a pension to a defined contribution plan similar to a 401k.

Beoing had also stated that if the union rejected this bid that they would move to building the new jets to a new plant in which 22 states were already taking bids to get.

the local union in washington lost the last bid for the 777 dreamliner to much the same reason. those planes are being built in SC.
the vote ended up 51 -49 against with most of the yes votes coming from younger union members that were looking to keep their jobs.

the local union was under a lot of pressure not only from local government but from the national union leaders to accept the contract.

the contract states that the union cannot strike until 2024 when the contract is up.
congrats for younger people in wanting to keep their jobs.

Good for Boeing and the workers. I like unions for the basics like workplace safety and quality of life in the workplace as well as fair wages etc. But unions often overreach and produce tough conditions for companies. I'm glad they were able to find a balance in these negotiations.
 
Good for Boeing and the workers. I like unions for the basics like workplace safety and quality of life in the workplace as well as fair wages etc. But unions often overreach and produce tough conditions for companies. I'm glad they were able to find a balance in these negotiations.

Well there was political pressure put on that local union. the local union didn't even want to bring it to a vote and was overriden by the nation union.

boeng had the same problem down here a few years ago. the machinst union went on strike. i ran into some of them (i was looking for work at the time the guy i was working for couldn't pay). they were doing temp work for UPS.

they were mad that boeing wanted them to pay 2% more on their heatlhcare and 4% more on their pension. these guys went from making 25-30+ dollars an hour to 100 a week strike pay.

i just shook my head and walked off.
 
Well there was political pressure put on that local union. the local union didn't even want to bring it to a vote and was overriden by the nation union.

boeng had the same problem down here a few years ago. the machinst union went on strike. i ran into some of them (i was looking for work at the time the guy i was working for couldn't pay). they were doing temp work for UPS.

they were mad that boeing wanted them to pay 2% more on their heatlhcare and 4% more on their pension. these guys went from making 25-30+ dollars an hour to 100 a week strike pay.

i just shook my head and walked off.

I think threatening in a real way to move the operation to Alabama (I think it was) was a slap in the face that woke up some rational minds.
 
I think threatening in a real way to move the operation to Alabama (I think it was) was a slap in the face that woke up some rational minds.

Well they should have.
 
The union is supposed to be looking to the welfare of their members. However, the health of the industry and the company they work for must be taken into account in that calculation. Boeing threatened to build elsewhere because building aircraft is not a particularly high percentage profit margin business. The list of possible customers for this aircraft is not that long and Airbus would be quite happy to offer their product.

There used to be a papermill in my town. Biggest employer here. A buddy of mine was local paper makers union president. He negotiated a contract of zero wage increase but modest improvements to pension and health care benefits.
The industry was suffering, low cost new mills in South America and the downturn in the newspaper business was putting pressure on sales, so this was really all that could be expected. A union member came up to my buddy and complained that he "Needed" an actual raise because he had just bought a new boat.
Three years later the mill closed. It was torn down a few years later. Many of the former workers now content themselves with working at Walmart, those who had trades, electricians, pipefitters, etc. have largely moved away, some managed to find work in local mines.

There were quite a lot of used boats, snowmobiles, and ATVs for dale in the classified ads that year.
 
The union is supposed to be looking to the welfare of their members. However, the health of the industry and the company they work for must be taken into account in that calculation. Boeing threatened to build elsewhere because building aircraft is not a particularly high percentage profit margin business. The list of possible customers for this aircraft is not that long and Airbus would be quite happy to offer their product.

There used to be a papermill in my town. Biggest employer here. A buddy of mine was local paper makers union president. He negotiated a contract of zero wage increase but modest improvements to pension and health care benefits.
The industry was suffering, low cost new mills in South America and the downturn in the newspaper business was putting pressure on sales, so this was really all that could be expected. A union member came up to my buddy and complained that he "Needed" an actual raise because he had just bought a new boat.
Three years later the mill closed. It was torn down a few years later. Many of the former workers now content themselves with working at Walmart, those who had trades, electricians, pipefitters, etc. have largely moved away, some managed to find work in local mines.

There were quite a lot of used boats, snowmobiles, and ATVs for dale in the classified ads that year.

The airplane business is a multi billion dollar business. boeing just doesn't sell to US firms but global airports. the new 777x wing is going to be a totally new innovation in air flight.
the current planes are being retired and need to be replaced and that is when boeing or airbus capitalizes.

the machinist union wanted more of the pie than boeing was willing to give. the biggest contention was the pension. overall the health of the company will be better off with doing the switch in how they handle the pension funds.

a lot of the old workers were upset but the newer workers have families to support and kids to raise. if the project would have gone somewhere else
boeings next big project isn't for another 10 years.
 
People who build aircraft aren't like fast food workers. Its a skilled trade that is based on institutional knowledge. Boeing already tried to build a plant in South Carolina, and is so troubled that it can only meet half its production quota. The only reason why Boeing won the negotiation is because they cleverly screwed the next generation of worker. The current employee's average age is around 50, so they won't really be impacted by the new contract.
 
People who build aircraft aren't like fast food workers. Its a skilled trade that is based on institutional knowledge. Boeing already tried to build a plant in South Carolina, and is so troubled that it can only meet half its production quota. The only reason why Boeing won the negotiation is because they cleverly screwed the next generation of worker. The current employee's average age is around 50, so they won't really be impacted by the new contract.

they are affected though their pension contribution is frozen and they will be transfered to the new retirement plan like all the other workers. that is why they voted against it.

the next generation of workers have a job for the next 10 years. to them feeding their families is more important. given that if boeing took the plant elsewhere like they were going to they would have lost jobs since the next big thing isn't going to come online until about the same time frame.

this was a win for both the company and the workers.
 
Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work : NPR



A little bit of back story. Boeing was looking to build the new 777x in WA. it has secured all the other unions except for the machinist unions.
They were opposing the contract on several accounts. They rejected the first one and boeing came back with better raises. the largest sticking point was the move from a pension to a defined contribution plan similar to a 401k.

Beoing had also stated that if the union rejected this bid that they would move to building the new jets to a new plant in which 22 states were already taking bids to get.

the local union in washington lost the last bid for the 777 dreamliner to much the same reason. those planes are being built in SC.
the vote ended up 51 -49 against with most of the yes votes coming from younger union members that were looking to keep their jobs.

the local union was under a lot of pressure not only from local government but from the national union leaders to accept the contract.

the contract states that the union cannot strike until 2024 when the contract is up.
congrats for younger people in wanting to keep their jobs.

I wonder what happens with the older chaps' pensions they've been putting into for their careers? Rolled over to a 401k or just stolen by execs like most corporations?
 
I wonder what happens with the older chaps' pensions they've been putting into for their careers? Rolled over to a 401k or just stolen by execs like most corporations?

they cannot steal pensions. those are locked into a pension managers fund independent of the company. I figure the money will just stay there until the people start drawing on it.
boeing has then made a new 401k plan for them with some hefty contributions to go with it.

the difference is that boeing doesn't have to continue to pay on a 401k when the person leaves like it does a pension. that is why most companies have dropped pension plans altogether.
their legacy costs just balloon out of control.
 
Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work : NPR



A little bit of back story. Boeing was looking to build the new 777x in WA. it has secured all the other unions except for the machinist unions.
They were opposing the contract on several accounts. They rejected the first one and boeing came back with better raises. the largest sticking point was the move from a pension to a defined contribution plan similar to a 401k.

Beoing had also stated that if the union rejected this bid that they would move to building the new jets to a new plant in which 22 states were already taking bids to get.

the local union in washington lost the last bid for the 777 dreamliner to much the same reason. those planes are being built in SC.
the vote ended up 51 -49 against with most of the yes votes coming from younger union members that were looking to keep their jobs.

the local union was under a lot of pressure not only from local government but from the national union leaders to accept the contract.

the contract states that the union cannot strike until 2024 when the contract is up.
congrats for younger people in wanting to keep their jobs.
Silly part is it's pretty much the same thing they rejected by a 2-1 margin the first vote. Just an extra 5,000 dollars and dental coverage. You would think they would be excited that they are guaranteed a job for the next decade. Nope they think they lost. I look at it like this, if the voted no this time, Boeing was not playing around, they were gonna move the work elsewhere. Better to have a job, with good benefits then not have a job at all. that 49% should be thanking the 51%
 
they cannot steal pensions. those are locked into a pension managers fund independent of the company. I figure the money will just stay there until the people start drawing on it.
boeing has then made a new 401k plan for them with some hefty contributions to go with it.

the difference is that boeing doesn't have to continue to pay on a 401k when the person leaves like it does a pension. that is why most companies have dropped pension plans altogether.
their legacy costs just balloon out of control.

Exactly, just ask GM
 
I think threatening in a real way to move the operation to Alabama (I think it was) was a slap in the face that woke up some rational minds.

I think SC was in the running since they are already making the dream liner
 
Silly part is it's pretty much the same thing they rejected by a 2-1 margin the first vote. Just an extra 5,000 dollars and dental coverage. You would think they would be excited that they are guaranteed a job for the next decade. Nope they think they lost. I look at it like this, if the voted no this time, Boeing was not playing around, they were gonna move the work elsewhere. Better to have a job, with good benefits then not have a job at all. that 49% should be thanking the 51%

actually what will happen is that the 49% will begin to bully on the 51% and they will find out who voted to accept it and those people will be harassed out of a job. that is how some of these union thugs work.

the union boss of the local will make sure that their lives are miserable. he was against the vote to begin with but had to go through with it because the national union said no you are going to vote.

you are right they should be thankful that they have jobs instead of not working or strike pay. they don't see it like that though.
 
actually what will happen is that the 49% will begin to bully on the 51% and they will find out who voted to accept it and those people will be harassed out of a job. that is how some of these union thugs work.

the union boss of the local will make sure that their lives are miserable. he was against the vote to begin with but had to go through with it because the national union said no you are going to vote.

you are right they should be thankful that they have jobs instead of not working or strike pay. they don't see it like that though.

I like how he negotiates a contract then says vote against it. What a turd if you ask me. Well if those 49% bully those 51% out of a job guess what? The contract is still there for 10 years and they can not strike, or they will be out of work too and Boeing moves elsewhere, since the contract says will not strike for 10 years, they would have broken the contract.
 
Sheesh, Why bother having a union if employees have to fear they will lose their jobs if management refuses what is negotiated? Sounds like blackmail to me.
 
they cannot steal pensions. those are locked into a pension managers fund independent of the company. I figure the money will just stay there until the people start drawing on it.
boeing has then made a new 401k plan for them with some hefty contributions to go with it.

the difference is that boeing doesn't have to continue to pay on a 401k when the person leaves like it does a pension. that is why most companies have dropped pension plans altogether.
their legacy costs just balloon out of control.

Pensions are stolen all the time.

To be sure, the Employee Retirement Income Safety Act of 1974 made clear that pension assets are to be managed solely for the benefit of participants. But Schultz describes how companies still managed to use the money to pay for severance packages and for parachute payments to executives, among other things. Some companies simply sold pension assets for cash. Now pensions are collectively 20% underfunded.

Forbes link...

Then after the execs stole the pension funds and milked the companies dry of assets, they declare bankruptcy and offload pension responsibilities of the company to the taxpayer to fund the pensions at a fraction of what they were supposed to get paid. This was the gist of vulture capitalism.
 
Pensions are stolen all the time.

To be sure, the Employee Retirement Income Safety Act of 1974 made clear that pension assets are to be managed solely for the benefit of participants. But Schultz describes how companies still managed to use the money to pay for severance packages and for parachute payments to executives, among other things. Some companies simply sold pension assets for cash. Now pensions are collectively 20% underfunded.

Forbes link...

Then after the execs stole the pension funds and milked the companies dry of assets, they declare bankruptcy and offload pension responsibilities of the company to the taxpayer to fund the pensions at a fraction of what they were supposed to get paid. This was the gist of vulture capitalism.

You can't steal from a pension fund. it is a locked account controlled by the pension holder. what companies are doing are not paying the full amount owed to the pension that is totally different. until the money is payed to the pension it technically is the companies money.

from city to states to even the federal government has under funded pension plans on going. so it isn't just the private sector "stealing" pension funds.
 
Well there was political pressure put on that local union. the local union didn't even want to bring it to a vote and was overriden by the nation union.

boeng had the same problem down here a few years ago. the machinst union went on strike. i ran into some of them (i was looking for work at the time the guy i was working for couldn't pay). they were doing temp work for UPS.

they were mad that boeing wanted them to pay 2% more on their heatlhcare and 4% more on their pension. these guys went from making 25-30+ dollars an hour to 100 a week strike pay.

i just shook my head and walked off.

The local union didnt want another vote but Boeing made it clear, after the last vote, that they would move that work out of the state, period. So it gave the machinists another chance to decide if they really didnt want those jobs anymore. It was a reality check....and they got a second chance to look at it and vote.
 
The local union didnt want another vote but Boeing made it clear, after the last vote, that they would move that work out of the state, period. So it gave the machinists another chance to decide if they really didnt want those jobs anymore. It was a reality check....and they got a second chance to look at it and vote.

The reality is check is for Boeing. Their set up in South Carolina failed and the only reason the 787 isn't massively behind on production schedule is because Everett is making up the slack on dreamliners. Building aircraft is not something you can do without incredible infrastructure, training, education and experience. The only reason their threat had merit is because management is moronic enough to go through with it, even if it would hurt the company. Their CEO is so stupid he stated in public he wanted to move headquarters to China.
 
You can't steal from a pension fund. it is a locked account controlled by the pension holder. what companies are doing are not paying the full amount owed to the pension that is totally different. until the money is payed to the pension it technically is the companies money.

from city to states to even the federal government has under funded pension plans on going. so it isn't just the private sector "stealing" pension funds.

I guess you and I have different definitions of stealing. When a company has a pension plan they don't fund and instead use that money for executive pay... IMO, that is stealing. You rerouted money that was obligated to go to one place to line your pockets. Then to bankrupt the company to get out of having to pay it... that is the closure of the theft.
 
The reality is check is for Boeing. Their set up in South Carolina failed and the only reason the 787 isn't massively behind on production schedule is because Everett is making up the slack on dreamliners. Building aircraft is not something you can do without incredible infrastructure, training, education and experience. The only reason their threat had merit is because management is moronic enough to go through with it, even if it would hurt the company. Their CEO is so stupid he stated in public he wanted to move headquarters to China.

There is a lack of skilled workers in SC....that is the reason for their issues. And that can be fixed...it just takes some time. Boeing has options in places with a skilled workforce...like Huntsville, AL.

Boeing shouldnt be held hostage by worker demands no longer feasible in our economy.....like any business, they owe it to their shareholders to find the most economic choices long-term.
 
There is a lack of skilled workers in SC....that is the reason for their issues. And that can be fixed...it just takes some time. Boeing has options in places with a skilled workforce...like Huntsville, AL.

Boeing shouldnt be held hostage by worker demands no longer feasible in our economy.....like any business, they owe it to their shareholders to find the most economic choices long-term.

It isn't even really share holders. Boeing is a company and their number 1 goal is to make money. if they can't make that money in one place they will go to another place.

Their set up in South Carolina failed

it hasn't failed because it is still open and boeing is working through normal startup issues with a new plant. once they get everyone trained up and in place then the plant will start to produce.
 
It isn't even really share holders. Boeing is a company and their number 1 goal is to make money. if they can't make that money in one place they will go to another place.

it hasn't failed because it is still open and boeing is working through normal startup issues with a new plant. once they get everyone trained up and in place then the plant will start to produce.


I completely agree that Boeing's number one goal is to make money.

And I was using 'failed' pretty casually. I realize it hasnt failed in SC, but has not lived up to expectations. I just see it as a matter of maturing the workforce.
 
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