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Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work

If Boeing fails because they refuse to pay reasonable wages to retain their specialized workforce, that failure squarely falls on management. I'm not claiming that Boeing is going to collapse tomorrow, but continuing to make these kind of stupid mistakes will have consequences down the road.

What is a "reasonable wage"? For instance, using glassdoor.com I compared wages and came up with this...

Engineer in SC = $73,607.

Production assembly = $15. P/Hr. to $20. P/Hr.

vs.

Engineer in WA. = $87.703 Which is >$14K

Production assembly in WA. = $20.57 P/Hr. Which is >$.57

http://www.glassdoor.com/

So, while more technical degrees are substantially higher in WA. as opposed to SC, hourly wage on the line seems to be pretty close.

So, this argument of "reasonable" considering cost of living, and equal factors is a non factor.
 
Pensions are stolen all the time.

To be sure, the Employee Retirement Income Safety Act of 1974 made clear that pension assets are to be managed solely for the benefit of participants. But Schultz describes how companies still managed to use the money to pay for severance packages and for parachute payments to executives, among other things. Some companies simply sold pension assets for cash. Now pensions are collectively 20% underfunded.

Forbes link...

Then after the execs stole the pension funds and milked the companies dry of assets, they declare bankruptcy and offload pension responsibilities of the company to the taxpayer to fund the pensions at a fraction of what they were supposed to get paid. This was the gist of vulture capitalism.

Sounds eerily like what the Federal Government has done to Social Security....
 
Boeing is currently building 1.5 aircraft a month in Charlotte when their schedule called for 3. Boeing SC shifts message on North Charleston production goals – The Post and Courier

So, you're basing it on an opinion piece? Ok. True enough that 3 per month is not being achieved (yet), it is not realistic for you, or the column writer to make the assumption that the workers are taking longer to get to speed. I in fact provided an article that could equally make the excuse in delivery, citing the paint facility. The truth is complex in a product that large.
 
What is a "reasonable wage"? For instance, using glassdoor.com I compared wages and came up with this...

Engineer in SC = $73,607.

Production assembly = $15. P/Hr. to $20. P/Hr.

vs.

Engineer in WA. = $87.703 Which is >$14K

Production assembly in WA. = $20.57 P/Hr. Which is >$.57

http://www.glassdoor.com/

So, while more technical degrees are substantially higher in WA. as opposed to SC, hourly wage on the line seems to be pretty close.

So, this argument of "reasonable" considering cost of living, and equal factors is a non factor.


Cost of living here in W. WA is much higher than in SC.
 
Washington Boeing employees have continued to build excellent high quality aircraft as they have for decades. Meanwhile, the Dreamliner has run into problems because of managements failures in outsourcing components and problems in setting up different production lines. Rewarding failure and punishing success is utterly moronic.

Nice excuses.

No one is punishing success with reasonable wage packages that reflect the current economic environment.
 
Just anecdotally, I know alot of Boeing workers. Many different roles. Mostly great people.

I rented my bungalow out to a Boeing mechanic. She was an unstable (under a Dr's care) woman who was almost continually drugged up. And off to work she went.

She lasted 3 months before I kicked her out.
 
Cost of living here in W. WA is much higher than in SC.

Absolutely, that's what I am saying....Dollar for dollar, those working in the plant in SC are making as much, if not more, in the case of line production, as WA.
 
So, you're basing it on an opinion piece? Ok. True enough that 3 per month is not being achieved (yet), it is not realistic for you, or the column writer to make the assumption that the workers are taking longer to get to speed. I in fact provided an article that could equally make the excuse in delivery, citing the paint facility. The truth is complex in a product that large.

You claim is so ridiculous that nobody even at Boeing would throw around such a lame excuse. Pretending that painting could result in 50% production slowdowns would get you laughed out of the aerospace industry.
 
You claim is so ridiculous that nobody even at Boeing would throw around such a lame excuse. Pretending that painting could result in 50% production slowdowns would get you laughed out of the aerospace industry.

Well, I see at least you are consistent in jumping to your false conclusions. No where did I say that it accounted for a 50% production slowdown. This is a new operation, and it may take longer than realized to get to speed, but they are committed to building them here, (which IMHO is a good thing) and are further investing in the area to bring the paint facility to Charleston as well...If it were such a failure as you describe, then they wouldn't be doing that.
 
Absolutely, that's what I am saying....Dollar for dollar, those working in the plant in SC are making as much, if not more, in the case of line production, as WA.

Thats likely accurate. WA median income for 2012 was $68k. SC was $42k. Using the wages from the glassdoor website, Boeing workers in SC are probably making more considering cost of living is certainly impacted by median incomes. Have seen this first hand living in MA. Higher median income but cost of living is through the roof.
 
Yes, mainly. That was my impression as well.

And they arent 'losing' anything....their pension programs are being frozen as is. THey are welcome to make their own arrangements elsewhere.

Nothng that many other Americans dont have to do. The fact is, they felt they were entitled to it. Newer workers felt the same. However, the company disagreed, it affects their bottom line, and in today's economic climate, is not, just *IMO* unreasonable.

You mean a climate of greed from multi billion dollar corporation?
 
You mean a climate of greed from multi billion dollar corporation?

Dont whine. If you dont like it, go out and make your own millions. Lots of people still do.
 
Dont whine. If you dont like it, go out and make your own millions. Lots of people still do.

That's a rather glib reply. These people don't want to make millions. That is not at all the expectation.
 
The only competitor Boeing has is Airbus, who pays high European wages. There is no such thing as cheap labor capable of building commercial airliners. You have bought into the nonsense that all labor can be trivially replaced and has no real value. When it comes to building airplanes, it couldn't be further from the truth.

i never said anything about cheap labor that is a strawman. I said the company is looking to shed legacy costs. which is exactly what it has done. the problem with pensions is that they continue to balloon out of control to the point that the company can no longer pay them. the shift to the new system will help protect boeings future investments and business model. they no longer have to sit and continue to pay people that no longer work for that company.


Cars are nothing like airplanes. The build standards are light years apart.

Yet you have the same type of process no matter if you build it in WA or SC. the difference is going to be setting up the new site to run as efficiently as your other site.
 
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