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Thread: Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work

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    Re: Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I wonder what happens with the older chaps' pensions they've been putting into for their careers? Rolled over to a 401k or just stolen by execs like most corporations?
    they cannot steal pensions. those are locked into a pension managers fund independent of the company. I figure the money will just stay there until the people start drawing on it.
    boeing has then made a new 401k plan for them with some hefty contributions to go with it.

    the difference is that boeing doesn't have to continue to pay on a 401k when the person leaves like it does a pension. that is why most companies have dropped pension plans altogether.
    their legacy costs just balloon out of control.

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    Re: Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work : NPR



    A little bit of back story. Boeing was looking to build the new 777x in WA. it has secured all the other unions except for the machinist unions.
    They were opposing the contract on several accounts. They rejected the first one and boeing came back with better raises. the largest sticking point was the move from a pension to a defined contribution plan similar to a 401k.

    Beoing had also stated that if the union rejected this bid that they would move to building the new jets to a new plant in which 22 states were already taking bids to get.

    the local union in washington lost the last bid for the 777 dreamliner to much the same reason. those planes are being built in SC.
    the vote ended up 51 -49 against with most of the yes votes coming from younger union members that were looking to keep their jobs.

    the local union was under a lot of pressure not only from local government but from the national union leaders to accept the contract.

    the contract states that the union cannot strike until 2024 when the contract is up.
    congrats for younger people in wanting to keep their jobs.
    Silly part is it's pretty much the same thing they rejected by a 2-1 margin the first vote. Just an extra 5,000 dollars and dental coverage. You would think they would be excited that they are guaranteed a job for the next decade. Nope they think they lost. I look at it like this, if the voted no this time, Boeing was not playing around, they were gonna move the work elsewhere. Better to have a job, with good benefits then not have a job at all. that 49% should be thanking the 51%

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    Re: Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    they cannot steal pensions. those are locked into a pension managers fund independent of the company. I figure the money will just stay there until the people start drawing on it.
    boeing has then made a new 401k plan for them with some hefty contributions to go with it.

    the difference is that boeing doesn't have to continue to pay on a 401k when the person leaves like it does a pension. that is why most companies have dropped pension plans altogether.
    their legacy costs just balloon out of control.
    Exactly, just ask GM

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    Re: Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    I think threatening in a real way to move the operation to Alabama (I think it was) was a slap in the face that woke up some rational minds.
    I think SC was in the running since they are already making the dream liner

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    Re: Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ja View Post
    Silly part is it's pretty much the same thing they rejected by a 2-1 margin the first vote. Just an extra 5,000 dollars and dental coverage. You would think they would be excited that they are guaranteed a job for the next decade. Nope they think they lost. I look at it like this, if the voted no this time, Boeing was not playing around, they were gonna move the work elsewhere. Better to have a job, with good benefits then not have a job at all. that 49% should be thanking the 51%
    actually what will happen is that the 49% will begin to bully on the 51% and they will find out who voted to accept it and those people will be harassed out of a job. that is how some of these union thugs work.

    the union boss of the local will make sure that their lives are miserable. he was against the vote to begin with but had to go through with it because the national union said no you are going to vote.

    you are right they should be thankful that they have jobs instead of not working or strike pay. they don't see it like that though.

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    Re: Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    actually what will happen is that the 49% will begin to bully on the 51% and they will find out who voted to accept it and those people will be harassed out of a job. that is how some of these union thugs work.

    the union boss of the local will make sure that their lives are miserable. he was against the vote to begin with but had to go through with it because the national union said no you are going to vote.

    you are right they should be thankful that they have jobs instead of not working or strike pay. they don't see it like that though.
    I like how he negotiates a contract then says vote against it. What a turd if you ask me. Well if those 49% bully those 51% out of a job guess what? The contract is still there for 10 years and they can not strike, or they will be out of work too and Boeing moves elsewhere, since the contract says will not strike for 10 years, they would have broken the contract.

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    Re: Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work

    Sheesh, Why bother having a union if employees have to fear they will lose their jobs if management refuses what is negotiated? Sounds like blackmail to me.

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    Re: Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    they cannot steal pensions. those are locked into a pension managers fund independent of the company. I figure the money will just stay there until the people start drawing on it.
    boeing has then made a new 401k plan for them with some hefty contributions to go with it.

    the difference is that boeing doesn't have to continue to pay on a 401k when the person leaves like it does a pension. that is why most companies have dropped pension plans altogether.
    their legacy costs just balloon out of control.
    Pensions are stolen all the time.

    To be sure, the Employee Retirement Income Safety Act of 1974 made clear that pension assets are to be managed solely for the benefit of participants. But Schultz describes how companies still managed to use the money to pay for severance packages and for parachute payments to executives, among other things. Some companies simply sold pension assets for cash. Now pensions are collectively 20% underfunded.

    Forbes link...

    Then after the execs stole the pension funds and milked the companies dry of assets, they declare bankruptcy and offload pension responsibilities of the company to the taxpayer to fund the pensions at a fraction of what they were supposed to get paid. This was the gist of vulture capitalism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Pensions are stolen all the time.

    To be sure, the Employee Retirement Income Safety Act of 1974 made clear that pension assets are to be managed solely for the benefit of participants. But Schultz describes how companies still managed to use the money to pay for severance packages and for parachute payments to executives, among other things. Some companies simply sold pension assets for cash. Now pensions are collectively 20% underfunded.

    Forbes link...

    Then after the execs stole the pension funds and milked the companies dry of assets, they declare bankruptcy and offload pension responsibilities of the company to the taxpayer to fund the pensions at a fraction of what they were supposed to get paid. This was the gist of vulture capitalism.
    You can't steal from a pension fund. it is a locked account controlled by the pension holder. what companies are doing are not paying the full amount owed to the pension that is totally different. until the money is payed to the pension it technically is the companies money.

    from city to states to even the federal government has under funded pension plans on going. so it isn't just the private sector "stealing" pension funds.

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    Re: Boeing Machinists Approve Contract To Secure 777X Work

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    Well there was political pressure put on that local union. the local union didn't even want to bring it to a vote and was overriden by the nation union.

    boeng had the same problem down here a few years ago. the machinst union went on strike. i ran into some of them (i was looking for work at the time the guy i was working for couldn't pay). they were doing temp work for UPS.

    they were mad that boeing wanted them to pay 2% more on their heatlhcare and 4% more on their pension. these guys went from making 25-30+ dollars an hour to 100 a week strike pay.

    i just shook my head and walked off.
    The local union didnt want another vote but Boeing made it clear, after the last vote, that they would move that work out of the state, period. So it gave the machinists another chance to decide if they really didnt want those jobs anymore. It was a reality check....and they got a second chance to look at it and vote.
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