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Thread: Ohio killer to get 2-drug injection untried in US

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    Re: Ohio killer to get 2-drug injection untried in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    That may work in a freshman Philosophy 101 class, but not here.
    I believe the way to tackle a syllogism is to show which premise(s) are false, or show why the conclusion doesn't follow from the premises. I'd appreciate if you could do that.

    As a society we decided long ago that we sanction some civil killing. (I exclude warfare, an entirely different discussion.) When pro-choice prevailed over pro-life that milestone was passed. We decided we could live with the destruction of some human life in order to accomplish something else we deemed worth the sacrifice. For the record, I'm pro-choice; I understand why we condone abortion. Having justified en bloc the killing of assuredly innocent fetuses, there can be no claim on behalf of convicted criminals, whose death-worthiness, as a calculated matter, is nearly infinitely greater. Put most plainly, we do not hold life sacred. I'm fine with that, and I decline to indulge in a hypocritical fudge factor on behalf of shallow sentimentalism.
    This is, literally, irrelevant to the discussion. We are not talking about abortion. You have to show me why it is justified to kill someone who could be innocent.

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    Re: Ohio killer to get 2-drug injection untried in US

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Now that I would consider cruel and unusual punishment! Apparently political crimes are taken quite seriously in North Korea! "He was a womanizer and a traitor who tried to grab power" was the official explanation given!

    Greetings, US Conservative.
    And yet there are lefties here who think the US is the same-to make a distinction would be to discriminate and we can't have THAT can we?

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    Re: Ohio killer to get 2-drug injection untried in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Aekos View Post
    I believe the way to tackle a syllogism is to show which premise(s) are false, or show why the conclusion doesn't follow from the premises. I'd appreciate if you could do that.



    This is, literally, irrelevant to the discussion. We are not talking about abortion. You have to show me why it is justified to kill someone who could be innocent.
    Sorry, but what you presented was not a syllogism. I had hoped not to have to point that out. As a society we have already sanctioned the killing of innocents. In the balance, the occasional wrongly convicted criminal is decimal dust compared to the social utility of the death penalty and the threat thereof.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Ohio killer to get 2-drug injection untried in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    That may work in a freshman Philosophy 101 class, but not here.

    As a society we decided long ago that we sanction some civil killing. (I exclude warfare, an entirely different discussion.) When pro-choice prevailed over pro-life that milestone was passed. We decided we could live with the destruction of some human life in order to accomplish something else we deemed worth the sacrifice. For the record, I'm pro-choice; I understand why we condone abortion. Having justified en bloc the killing of assuredly innocent fetuses, there can be no claim on behalf of convicted criminals, whose death-worthiness, as a calculated matter, is nearly infinitely greater. Put most plainly, we do not hold life sacred. I'm fine with that, and I decline to indulge in a hypocritical fudge factor on behalf of shallow sentimentalism.


    Greetings, Jack.

    It looks like the wind chill factor is currently minus 25 degrees in Green Bay, and the sun hasn't set yet!

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    Re: Ohio killer to get 2-drug injection untried in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Sorry, but what you presented was not a syllogism. I had hoped not to have to point that out. As a society we have already sanctioned the killing of innocents. In the balance, the occasional wrongly convicted criminal is decimal dust compared to the social utility of the death penalty and the threat thereof.
    Ah ok, I got your position. You don't care if innocent people are killed in the pursuit of killing guilty people. Got it.

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    Re: Ohio killer to get 2-drug injection untried in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Aekos View Post
    I'll illustrate the point as a syllogism:

    P1: Murder is immoral
    P2: Convicted criminals are not always guilty
    P3: Life is preferable to death
    =
    C: The death penalty is immoral and is not preferable to life in prison

    Killing an innocent person, which is a risk with the death penalty, is by definition murder.
    A syllogism requires a major premise, a minor premise and a conclusion. If we accept your P1 as your major premise then you P2 is presumably intended as your minor premise. Sadly, the appropriate response to P2 is: So what? There is no link between P1 and P2. Your P3, presumably meant as a conclusion, bears no relationship to either P1 or P2.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Ohio killer to get 2-drug injection untried in US

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post


    Greetings, Jack.

    It looks like the wind chill factor is currently minus 25 degrees in Green Bay, and the sun hasn't set yet!
    Good evening, Polgara.

    It's a good game to watch at home.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Ohio killer to get 2-drug injection untried in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    A syllogism requires a major premise, a minor premise and a conclusion. If we accept your P1 as your major premise then you P2 is presumably intended as your minor premise. Sadly, the appropriate response to P2 is: So what? There is no link between P1 and P2. Your P3, presumably meant as a conclusion, bears no relationship to either P1 or P2.
    Yeah, in Aristotelian logic, maybe. I was using the term in a general sense, you could substitute it for 'argument'. Afterall, Syllogism means (literally) 'inference'.

    Are you aware of first-order logic that superceded syllogistic inquiry in academia?

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    Re: Ohio killer to get 2-drug injection untried in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Aekos View Post
    Ah ok, I got your position. You don't care if innocent people are killed in the pursuit of killing guilty people. Got it.
    That is the judgment our society has made. I support it. It is a massive incoherence to be pro-choice but against the death penalty. Oddly, that incoherence is widespread. Most people who are pro-life support the death penalty, an equal incoherence. I prefer to be coherent.
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    Re: Ohio killer to get 2-drug injection untried in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Aekos View Post
    Yeah, in Aristotelian logic, maybe. I was using the term in a general sense, you could substitute it for 'argument'. Afterall, Syllogism means (literally) 'inference'.

    Are you aware of first-order logic that superceded syllogistic inquiry in academia?
    Your argument is nonetheless incoherent.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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