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Thread: Chicago Murder rate drops to lowest point in 50 years

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    Re: Chicago Murder rate drops to lowest point in 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wait! You mean there is gun crime in, and around London?

    London Gun Crime Offences 2006 – 2012 | Citizens Report UK

    Why how can that be? I thought having a gun was illegal in London?

    Surely the strict gun control laws have resulted in a zeroing of gun crimes? No? Hmmmmm.....
    Gun control doesn't stop all crime but instead it controls it and keeps manageable.
    That's why a city like London which is bigger than any US city can boast murder rates under 100 people in 2012. Its not even a case of having low violent crime rates etc as London is as violent as many other cities. The fact our youth, gangs, criminals etc struggle to get hold of guns is one of the main reasons London is able to keep that figure low

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    Re: Chicago Murder rate drops to lowest point in 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by xxstevennnxx View Post
    "Chicago is slated to end 2013 with fewer murders than at any time since the early 1960s with 412 homicides"

    Chicago Homicides Down by 17% in 2013 - WSJ.com

    What was all of that Republican rhetoric about failed gun control laws?

    You always have to see who does statistics. Joseph Stalin said in 1936: "No matter how they vote. It is important how we count. "

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    Re: Chicago Murder rate drops to lowest point in 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Gun control doesn't stop all crime but instead it controls it and keeps manageable.
    Manageable seems like a subjective term to me....What you think is manageable, I may not.

    That's why a city like London which is bigger than any US city can boast murder rates under 100 people in 2012.
    The bold part would be false....Although London in terms of land mass size, is slightly larger, NYC has slightly more population, as far as I know.

    Its not even a case of having low violent crime rates etc as London is as violent as many other cities.
    I know you brits love to ignore your crime problem....

    "In 2000, Dan Rather made many stiff British upper lips quiver by reporting that England had a crime problem and that, apart from murder, "theirs is worse than ours." The response was swift and sharp. "Have a Nice Daydream," The Mirror, a London daily, shot back, reporting: "Britain reacted with fury and disbelief last night to claims by American newsmen that crime and violence are worse here than in the US." But sandwiched between the article's battery of official denials -- "totally misleading," "a huge over-simplification," "astounding and outrageous" -- and a compilation of lurid crimes from "the wild west culture on the other side of the Atlantic where every other car is carrying a gun," The Mirror conceded that the CBS anchorman was correct. Except for murder and rape, it admitted, "Britain has overtaken the US for all major crimes."...

    Gun Control's Twisted Outcome - Reason.com

    The fact our youth, gangs, criminals etc struggle to get hold of guns is one of the main reasons London is able to keep that figure low
    That assumption would also be wrong it seems....

    "The test lab in this case is Britain, which enacted strict gun control laws five years ago following an especially tragic school shooting. But the results so far are not good.

    Americans were shocked when the Josephson Institute of Ethics revealed data in April that showed that 14 percent of all high school students and 21 percent of all boys had carried a weapon to school at least once in the past year.

    Addressing these findings, a representative for Handgun Control told Time.com, "The least we can do is keep guns out of kids' hands." That's exactly what Britain's strict gun laws aim to do.

    But according to a survey for the British government's Youth Justice Board released last week, fully 26 percent of high school-age students there have carried a weapon for aggressive or defensive purposes in the last year.

    Unfortunately, neither survey broke down the results by weapon type (although 17 percent of the British children admitted carrying a knife). But worryingly, among British "excluded" students (those who had been suspended or expelled from school), a staggering 23 percent claimed to have had access to a gun in the last year.

    This is in a country where it is virtually impossible to get access to a gun legally. Some commentators have suggested that part of the reason that the current outbreak of foot and mouth disease spread so rapidly there was because veterinarians could not shoot infected animals on the spot because they are forbidden to carry pistols.

    Yet we have evidence that almost one-fourth of the children who need the most help in avoiding taking the wrong path have access to firearms. Strict gun laws don't seem to be helping them much.

    Nor are they helping hold down crime in general. The recent International Crime Victimization Survey, which provides a good indication of overall crime levels around the world, shows that, while crime fell dramatically during the 1990s in the United States and most of the rest of the world, it has remained steady in Britain and Australia (which also enacted a gun ban during the late 1990s).

    Meanwhile, gun crimes in Britain are increasing. According to London's authoritative Sunday Times, the number of firearm offenses in Britain increased almost 40 percent from 4,903 in 1997 to 6,843 in 2000. These are still small figures in comparison to the United States, but the trend is the opposite of what might be expected.

    It does not seem that Britain can be said to be a safer place as a result of the gun ban. The police there have traditionally gone unarmed, but the number of incidents in which police officers have had guns issued to them in recognition of potential danger increased from about 6,000 in 1994-95 to over 12,000 in 1997-8.

    With such incidents come the inevitable mistakes: British police recently shot dead a drug dealer in his own bedroom. He was both unarmed and naked at the time.

    Nor has strict control had much effect on the number of guns available to criminals. British police estimate that there are nearly 300,000 illegal guns in circulation there -- one for every 200 people.

    To put that figure in perspective, the leading U.S. authority on gun numbers, Gary Kleck of Florida State University, estimates that only 180,000 guns are used in crimes in the United States each year.

    So despite the strict gun control laws, there are more than enough illegally held guns in Britain to allow gun crime there to reach U.S. proportions.

    These figures speak for themselves. Britain enacted strict gun control laws and has achieved a rise in gun crime, a decline in safety and a position where access to firearms among delinquent children seems commonplace."

    Did Strict British Gun Control Laws Work?
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    Re: Chicago Murder rate drops to lowest point in 50 years

    Other countries all over the world play the same video games and have the same mental health problems as the United States, but manage to avoid a sky-high gun murder rate and frequent public shooting massacres.

    The differences are due, in part, to the way that the different with the issue:



    Read more: These Laws Are The Reason Canada, Australia, Japan And The UK Have Such Low Gun Homicide Rates - Business Insider


    They were doolin sources.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Chicago Murder rate drops to lowest point in 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    That's like bragging your wife took 1st in a professional body building contest.
    No, it's like bragging that your wife has killed the fewest people in fifty years.

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    Re: Chicago Murder rate drops to lowest point in 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    No, it's like bragging that your wife has killed the fewest people in fifty years.
    Well, every small step helps. It begins with I won't kill, . . . .today.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Chicago Murder rate drops to lowest point in 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Other countries all over the world play the same video games and have the same mental health problems as the United States, but manage to avoid a sky-high gun murder rate and frequent public shooting massacres.

    The differences are due, in part, to the way that the different with the issue:



    Read more: These Laws Are The Reason Canada, Australia, Japan And The UK Have Such Low Gun Homicide Rates - Business Insider


    They were doolin sources.
    Unrealistic. You will never get that kind of gun control in this country.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Chicago Murder rate drops to lowest point in 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Unrealistic. You will never get that kind of gun control in this country.
    I agree. But that's not the same thing.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Chicago Murder rate drops to lowest point in 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Manageable seems like a subjective term to me....What you think is manageable, I may not.



    The bold part would be false....Although London in terms of land mass size, is slightly larger, NYC has slightly more population, as far as I know.



    I know you brits love to ignore your crime problem....

    "In 2000, Dan Rather made many stiff British upper lips quiver by reporting that England had a crime problem and that, apart from murder, "theirs is worse than ours." The response was swift and sharp. "Have a Nice Daydream," The Mirror, a London daily, shot back, reporting: "Britain reacted with fury and disbelief last night to claims by American newsmen that crime and violence are worse here than in the US." But sandwiched between the article's battery of official denials -- "totally misleading," "a huge over-simplification," "astounding and outrageous" -- and a compilation of lurid crimes from "the wild west culture on the other side of the Atlantic where every other car is carrying a gun," The Mirror conceded that the CBS anchorman was correct. Except for murder and rape, it admitted, "Britain has overtaken the US for all major crimes."...

    Gun Control's Twisted Outcome - Reason.com



    That assumption would also be wrong it seems....

    "The test lab in this case is Britain, which enacted strict gun control laws five years ago following an especially tragic school shooting. But the results so far are not good.

    Americans were shocked when the Josephson Institute of Ethics revealed data in April that showed that 14 percent of all high school students and 21 percent of all boys had carried a weapon to school at least once in the past year.

    Addressing these findings, a representative for Handgun Control told Time.com, "The least we can do is keep guns out of kids' hands." That's exactly what Britain's strict gun laws aim to do.

    But according to a survey for the British government's Youth Justice Board released last week, fully 26 percent of high school-age students there have carried a weapon for aggressive or defensive purposes in the last year.

    Unfortunately, neither survey broke down the results by weapon type (although 17 percent of the British children admitted carrying a knife). But worryingly, among British "excluded" students (those who had been suspended or expelled from school), a staggering 23 percent claimed to have had access to a gun in the last year.

    This is in a country where it is virtually impossible to get access to a gun legally. Some commentators have suggested that part of the reason that the current outbreak of foot and mouth disease spread so rapidly there was because veterinarians could not shoot infected animals on the spot because they are forbidden to carry pistols.

    Yet we have evidence that almost one-fourth of the children who need the most help in avoiding taking the wrong path have access to firearms. Strict gun laws don't seem to be helping them much.

    Nor are they helping hold down crime in general. The recent International Crime Victimization Survey, which provides a good indication of overall crime levels around the world, shows that, while crime fell dramatically during the 1990s in the United States and most of the rest of the world, it has remained steady in Britain and Australia (which also enacted a gun ban during the late 1990s).

    Meanwhile, gun crimes in Britain are increasing. According to London's authoritative Sunday Times, the number of firearm offenses in Britain increased almost 40 percent from 4,903 in 1997 to 6,843 in 2000. These are still small figures in comparison to the United States, but the trend is the opposite of what might be expected.

    It does not seem that Britain can be said to be a safer place as a result of the gun ban. The police there have traditionally gone unarmed, but the number of incidents in which police officers have had guns issued to them in recognition of potential danger increased from about 6,000 in 1994-95 to over 12,000 in 1997-8.

    With such incidents come the inevitable mistakes: British police recently shot dead a drug dealer in his own bedroom. He was both unarmed and naked at the time.

    Nor has strict control had much effect on the number of guns available to criminals. British police estimate that there are nearly 300,000 illegal guns in circulation there -- one for every 200 people.

    To put that figure in perspective, the leading U.S. authority on gun numbers, Gary Kleck of Florida State University, estimates that only 180,000 guns are used in crimes in the United States each year.

    So despite the strict gun control laws, there are more than enough illegally held guns in Britain to allow gun crime there to reach U.S. proportions.

    These figures speak for themselves. Britain enacted strict gun control laws and has achieved a rise in gun crime, a decline in safety and a position where access to firearms among delinquent children seems commonplace."

    Did Strict British Gun Control Laws Work?


    Big post for you here and you pretty much ignored all my points whilst at the same time confirming what I was saying. First off though it's worth pointing out that the British Crime survey's results show that violent crime has been on a steady downward trend for the past several decades so not sure where you are getting you information from. You have also ignored my point about our low Murder rate and the fact recently the murder rate has declined, "a fall of 19 per cent in homicides since 2001/02. If Britian is this dangerous place where school children and youths constantly carry weapons ( as your source said) why is it our murder rate is so low? Surely if we follow your logic our murder rate should be through the roof?
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: Chicago Murder rate drops to lowest point in 50 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Big post for you here and you pretty much ignored all my points whilst at the same time confirming what I was saying. First off though it's worth pointing out that the British Crime survey's results show that violent crime has been on a steady downward trend for the past several decades so not sure where you are getting you information from. You have also ignored my point about our low Murder rate and the fact recently the murder rate has declined, "a fall of 19 per cent in homicides since 2001/02. If Britian is this dangerous place where school children and youths constantly carry weapons ( as your source said) why is it our murder rate is so low? Surely if we follow your logic our murder rate should be through the roof?
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