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Justice Blocks Contraception Mandate on Insurance in Suit by Nuns

sangha said:
And what does that have to do with this thread?
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the government is forcing organizations or busineses who do not believe in contraception to allow that. the constitution strictly prohibits this as it interferes with religious practices.
 
No, other religious institutions can challenge the law and ask for an exemption. They haven't. Probably because birth control doesn't run counter to their doctrine.

The Mark said:
Then it appears to be a choice between: "Do we make a religion purchase insurance that provides contraception, which is counter to their beliefs"

OR: "Do we give all religious institutions exemptions from this law."
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The Mark said:
Then it appears to be a choice between: "Do we make a religion purchase insurance that provides contraception, which is counter to their beliefs"

OR: "Do we give all religious institutions exemptions from this law."
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The latter choice favors religion over non-religion, and certainly discriminates against religious beliefs that aren't officially recognized by the government. Both of those are unconstitutional.
 
ludin said:
Right but the employer has the right not to cover certain things if they don't want to. they are the ones that set the policy with the insurance company not the employee.
by working and signing up for benefits you agree to whatever coverage they offer.

There are businesses who's owners like hobby lobby have religious objections to contraceptives just like this nun organization and other religious institutions. the government forcing them to cover that is a direct violation of the constitution.

since the Supreme court ruled earlier that corporations are considered people they get the same protections under the constitution as a person would which include religious freedom and practice of that religion.
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To say that is to say they can give me money that can only be spent on certain things. And while I disagree that corporations are people, that doesn't change that the compensation belongs to the employee and not the employer. The rules are fir the employee, and the employer. The employee might not hold the same beliefs as the employer.
 
Apparently the language of the form requires insurance companies to pay for contraception. So, in effect, signing the form would violate their religious views.

If its true that the insurer in question is also exempted from the contraception part of Obamacare as the administration says, then why is the administration fighting the stay? Why not do nothing? The end result is the same. The're just being douche bags as usual.


sangha said:
The law provides an exemption for the Little Sisters. All they have to do is fill out and sign a form.

According to them, their religion doesn't allow them to fill out the form.
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mpg said:
Of course you should be able to use that insurance for whatever it covers. That has nothing to do with the government telling people what kind of insurance they can and can't buy.
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Government hasn't done that. They said insurance should meet higher standards, the meet the individual needs. Again, for the employee. the employer has little to do with it, or at least more than when he pays cash to the employee and he spends it on all kinds if objectionable things.
 
ludin said:
the government is forcing organizations or busineses who do not believe in contraception to allow that. the constitution strictly prohibits this as it interferes with religious practices.
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Umm, wrong

The Little Sisters do not have to provide coverage for contraception. Try reading the thread and the linked articles
 
Morton said:
Apparently the language of the form requires insurance companies to pay for contraception. So, in effect, signing the form would violate their religious views.
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No, that is not what the form says. It merely says that they are a religious org that opposes contraception so it wont provide it, and it states when the coverage it does provide will begin.

The employee can bring a copy of that form to the insurer to prove that they can't get coverage for contraception, etc through their employer, which the insurer requires before providing such limited coverage (at the employee's expense).

If its true that the insurer in question is also exempted from the contraception part of Obamacare as the administration says, then why is the administration fighting the stay? Why not do nothing? The end result is the same. The're just being douche bags as usual.
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The admin is not fighting the stay. It's been issued and there's nothing they can do about that.

It's the Little Sisters who are being douche bags.
 
Crazy talk. The government knows whats best. Don't be racist.

Fletch said:
OR we could try this unique approach--let everyone choose the health care insurance that meets their specific needs and pay for it themselves. That sort of liberty seems to have become unconstitutional.
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mpg said:
That has nothing to do with the government telling people what kind of insurance they can and can't buy.
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mpg said:
That's exactly what the thread is about.
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No, it has nothing to do with the govt telling people what kind of insurance they can and can not buy. It also has nothing to do with the individual mandate.

It's about the employer mandate, and the exemption for religious organizations.
 
Boo Radley said:
To say that is to say they can give me money that can only be spent on certain things. And while I disagree that corporations are people, that doesn't change that the compensation belongs to the employee and not the employer. The rules are fir the employee, and the employer. The employee might not hold the same beliefs as the employer.
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An employer should be allowed to give anything they choose as compensation to their employees, as long as the employee agrees to it as terms of their employment.
 
Boo Radley said:
Government hasn't done that. They said insurance should meet higher standards, the meet the individual needs.
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You're just paraphrasing what I said. The government is telling people what kind of insurance they can and can't buy.
 
Paschendale said:
The latter choice favors religion over non-religion, and certainly discriminates against religious beliefs that aren't officially recognized by the government. Both of those are unconstitutional.
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What the heck is the choice then.

Get rid of Obamacare?
 
sangha said:
The law provides an exemption for the Little Sisters. All they have to do is fill out and sign a form.

According to them, their religion doesn't allow them to fill out the form.
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That doesn't make sense.
 
Paschendale said:
The latter choice favors religion over non-religion, and certainly discriminates against religious beliefs that aren't officially recognized by the government. Both of those are unconstitutional.
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Wrong. the constutition clearly states that the government cannot interfere with the practice of religion. taking birth control is not a religious practice. being against birth control is a religious practice.

To say that is to say they can give me money that can only be spent on certain things. And while I disagree that corporations are people, that doesn't change that the compensation belongs to the employee and not the employer. The rules are fir the employee, and the employer. The employee might not hold the same beliefs as the employer
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no it doesn't that is a strawman. it is the company that sets what insurance that they offer. if you sign up for their insurance plan then you agree to accept whatever coverage they have worked out with the insurance company. you cannot go to that insurance company and say you want this or that coverage as you are not in charge of the overall policy your company is.

Umm, wrong

The Little Sisters do not have to provide coverage for contraception. Try reading the thread and the linked articles
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incorrect but i don't expect you to read what the argument actually is. If they don't provide it then the insurance company that they have is required to. again from what i have seen that still interferes with their religious beliefs and practices. that is still a violation of the 1st amendment.
 
ludin said:
incorrect but i don't expect you to read what the argument actually is. If they don't provide it then the insurance company that they have is required to. again from what i have seen that still interferes with their religious beliefs and practices. that is still a violation of the 1st amendment.
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IOW, even you know that the Little Sisters do not have to provide coverage for contraception, but you'll continue to lie and claim that the Little Sisters has to provide coverage for contraception
 
The Mark said:
That doesn't make sense.
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what the sisters can do is fill out a form their insurance company then as to pay for it anyway which they will do through higher premiums etc...
so the sisters are still paying for it just indirectly. that is what their argument is.
 
ludin said:
of course it doesn't what the sisters can do is fill out a form their insurance company then as to pay for it anyway which they will do through higher premiums etc...
so the sisters are still paying for it just indirectly. that is what their argument is.
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Seems a bit convoluted.
 
ludin said:
of course it doesn't what the sisters can do is fill out a form their insurance company then as to pay for it anyway which they will do through higher premiums etc...
so the sisters are still paying for it just indirectly. that is what their argument is.
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You are lying.

The insurance company does not have to pay for the coverage. They get paid for offering the coverage

The employees, if they want coverage for contraception, have to pay for it.

The Mark said:
Seems a bit convoluted.
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And untrue
 
The Mark said:
Seems a bit convoluted.
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Whether directly or indirectly they are still paying for contraceptive services something that their religious beliefs prevent them from using. Their argument still resides in the 1st amendment. hopefully this time the court will get it correct unlike the ruling on obamacare.

In my opinion the sister case is over. they win.

the bigger case that the court is hearing is the suit by hobby lobby. they are suing over the same thing the difference is they are a private business. The last ruling that we have is that corporations are people. it was cited that corporations have a freedom of speech and can use it. which would mean that corporations themselves have religious protections as well. it is going to be interesting to see what is decided in that case.
 
sangha said:
You are lying.

The insurance company does not have to pay for the coverage. They get paid for offering the coverage

The employees, if they want coverage for contraception, have to pay for it.



And untrue
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you say everyone is lieing which means you have no friggen clue on earth what a lie is.

their insurance company still has to offer it. if you no anything of catholic faith or religion helping someone else sin is sinning yourself.
they shouldn't have to sign anything as the government can't force them to offer contraceptives in the first place a violation of the constitution.

their faith also says they can't help someone else committ a sin and that is what signing that form does again a violation of the constitution.

the only person lieing here is you. you are purposely trying to distort their views into something else and you are knowingly doing it.

that is a lie. so before you call someone else a liar you might want to look in the mirror.
 
ludin said:
you say everyone is lieing which means you have no friggen clue on earth what a lie is.

their insurance company still has to offer it. if you no anything of catholic faith or religion helping someone else sin is sinning yourself.
they shouldn't have to sign anything as the government can't force them to offer contraceptives in the first place a violation of the constitution.

their faith also says they can't help someone else committ a sin and that is what signing that form does again a violation of the constitution.

the only person lieing here is you. you are purposely trying to distort their views into something else and you are knowingly doing it.

that is a lie. so before you call someone else a liar you might want to look in the mirror.
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You have lied

You said that the Little Sisters have to provide coverage for contraception. That is untrue

You said that the insurers have to pay for coverage for contraception. That is untrue

Now you say that the Little Sisters have to help the insurer provide coverage for contraception. That is untrue

The only thing Little Sisters have to do is fill out a form saying that they will not pay for contraception coverage because they are a religious org, and state the date on which the coverage they do offer will begin. That is all

ludin said:
Whether directly or indirectly they are still paying for contraceptive services something that their religious beliefs prevent them from using..
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It's a ridiculous argument. It's like saying they don't have to pay their employees because they might use the money to buy a condom.
 
sangha said:
No, it has nothing to do with the govt telling people what kind of insurance they can and can not buy. It also has nothing to do with the individual mandate.

It's about the employer mandate, and the exemption for religious organizations.
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Employers aren't people?
 
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