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Thread: Justice Blocks Contraception Mandate on Insurance in Suit by Nuns

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    Re: Justice Blocks Contraception Mandate on Insurance in Suit by Nuns

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Sure. But pas there are so many options, they are not being told what to buy.
    Lots of options does not mean unlimited options. Sure, there are plenty of choices to choose from - but don't try to say that means we aren't told what we shouldn't buy, for various reasons, many of them good.

    If I wanted to choose some car that was dangerous to drive on the roads (as determined by whichever government agency decides that), chances are I would need go jump through a ****ton of hoops to even get it shipped over here, and then only be able to drive it on a track.

    I'm not saying these limitations are unreasonable, I'm just pointing out that they exist.
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    Re: Justice Blocks Contraception Mandate on Insurance in Suit by Nuns

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The Little Sisters are not required to cover contraception. Please stop lying about that
    Correct me if I am wrong, but they are required to purchase (and provide to their employees) insurance that covers contraception.

    If this is correct, how can you possibly say they are not being required to pay for contraception.
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    Re: Justice Blocks Contraception Mandate on Insurance in Suit by Nuns

    It is just a sad thing for individuals v. government that this is even debatable. Can you imagine telling the founders after they wrote the Constitution that the federal government would be forcing the people to buy health insurance and that they would even be involved in the cost of contraception, let alone that the government was forcing companies to provid free contraception?

    They would have thought that you were crazy and that no patriot in their right mind could in any way look at our Constitution and get that much government power out of it. They would say that this is what we fought against and there would be no way it would ever be allowed to happen.
    Yet here we are, with a man that has vowed to fundamentally change our country from our individual freedoms, like our fore fathers fundamentally changed our country from the tyranny of England.

    Except he wants to go back to tyranny now.
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    Re: Justice Blocks Contraception Mandate on Insurance in Suit by Nuns

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    There are many different insurance policies out there and employers get to choose which ones to provide to their employees. Even with the mandates, that's still true. That's much different from telling them how to spend their cash.
    Not really. There are many different pay scales and methods of payment, but they still have to meet minimum wage and other rules. Both have to meet government standards and none should allow the employer to dictate use of the compensation.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Justice Blocks Contraception Mandate on Insurance in Suit by Nuns

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Obviously they're telling the people what cars they can't buy, which narrows down the ones that they can buy.
    Any they want to that meets the standards. We do this with all kinds if products and services. And it is right to do so in most cases. But there are plenty if choices.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Justice Blocks Contraception Mandate on Insurance in Suit by Nuns

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Lots of options does not mean unlimited options. Sure, there are plenty of choices to choose from - but don't try to say that means we aren't told what we shouldn't buy, for various reasons, many of them good.

    If I wanted to choose some car that was dangerous to drive on the roads (as determined by whichever government agency decides that), chances are I would need go jump through a ****ton of hoops to even get it shipped over here, and then only be able to drive it on a track.

    I'm not saying these limitations are unreasonable, I'm just pointing out that they exist.
    Unlimited options don't really exist. They are all kinds of things that limit our options. Meeting appropriate standards are the least of things that limit us. So it's really a false argument concerning choices being limited. The companies themselves have been limiting us long before ACA.

    I believe in functional over technical. As the world doesn't functionally gave unlimited choices, the question is one of whether we've been unduly limited and denied choice. I believe we have not.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Justice Blocks Contraception Mandate on Insurance in Suit by Nuns

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Unlimited options don't really exist. They are all kinds of things that limit our options. Meeting appropriate standards are the least of things that limit us. So it's really a false argument concerning choices being limited. The companies themselves have been limiting us long before ACA.

    I believe in functional over technical. As the world doesn't functionally gave unlimited choices, the question is one of whether we've been unduly limited and denied choice. I believe we have not.
    Some of the problems I saw with the health care system prior to ACA were because of some of those very limitations you speak of, whether company or government implemented.
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    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Justice Blocks Contraception Mandate on Insurance in Suit by Nuns

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, but they are required to purchase (and provide to their employees) insurance that covers contraception.

    If this is correct, how can you possibly say they are not being required to pay for contraception.
    No, that's not correct

    As a religious organization, they can be exempted from the requirement of providing contraceptive coverage by filling out a form. Their argument is that filling out the form is a violation of their religious principles because their employees can take a copy of that form to the insurer and buy contraceptive coverage directly from the insurer.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Justice Blocks Contraception Mandate on Insurance in Suit by Nuns

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The Little Sisters are not required to cover contraception. Please stop lying about that
    strawman fail.

    as i said you don't understand their religious beliefs. PS this isn't just for catholics it is for muslims as well.
    Last edited by ludin; 01-05-14 at 09:55 AM.

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    Re: Justice Blocks Contraception Mandate on Insurance in Suit by Nuns

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    It is just a sad thing for individuals v. government that this is even debatable. Can you imagine telling the founders after they wrote the Constitution that the federal government would be forcing the people to buy health insurance and that they would even be involved in the cost of contraception, let alone that the government was forcing companies to provid free contraception?

    They would have thought that you were crazy and that no patriot in their right mind could in any way look at our Constitution and get that much government power out of it. They would say that this is what we fought against and there would be no way it would ever be allowed to happen.
    Yet here we are, with a man that has vowed to fundamentally change our country from our individual freedoms, like our fore fathers fundamentally changed our country from the tyranny of England.

    Except he wants to go back to tyranny now.
    that is exactly it. The people that fought and died for this country are rolling in their grave because of all the garbage the the government that they built has upended everything they fought for.

    What is sad is that there are people out there that actually push for more of it.

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