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One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows[W:571]

Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
And they, from where? Keep going.
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You don't really care much about actual scientific inquiry, and that is clear from this string of questions... "and where did that come from? and then? and then?" ad infinitum

I'll play along. They came from the Greek Pantheon, under order from Zeus. I'm a heterodox mystic. Prove me wrong.


Good for you...I am not saying that they are wrong, only that they don't have the exact answers...They certainly are well educated, and many have devoted their lives to answering questions like this, for that I am in amazement. But when you hide behind "probably", "maybe", "most likely'', and such then turn and denigrate those who don't think like you do, you tend to look not only intolerant, but foolish.
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I understand your concern. But until you offer a better theory, I'm more inclined to trust professionals.


Or "maybe", or "could be", or "I don't know".....
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At one stage this is how religious people resisted theories of gravity, the big bang and the structure of our galaxy. It just doesn't belong in rational discourse. If YOU can identify a problem with these theories, be my guest.


So that's the choice you falsely ascribe to me? Either I accept all of your theory, or none of it? False choice.
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Which part(s) of evolution do you disagree with and on what grounds?
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

KevinKohler said:
1/3?


Eh...I find that hard to believe. 1/3 of the people polled, maybe. And maybe that poll was done in Alabama.
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Just what I was thinking... making you kinda rethink Polls too.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Aekos said:
You don't really care much about actual scientific inquiry, and that is clear from this string of questions... "and where did that come from? and then? and then?" ad infinitum

I'll play along. They came from the Greek Pantheon, under order from Zeus. I'm a heterodox mystic. Prove me wrong.
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Just trying to get to the point where you admit that at some point even your theory relies on faith that it just was. Looks like we got there.

I understand your concern. But until you offer a better theory, I'm more inclined to trust professionals.
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That is a mistake you make...I don't have to have all the answers, only to poke holes in your claims.

At one stage this is how religious people resisted theories of gravity, the big bang and the structure of our galaxy. It just doesn't belong in rational discourse. If YOU can identify a problem with these theories, be my guest.
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No, name calling aside, these are your claims, it is up to you to prove them....All I have to do is question them.

Which part(s) of evolution do you disagree with and on what grounds?
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Not saying I do...Why would you think that?
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Aekos said:
You don't really care much about actual scientific inquiry, and that is clear from this string of questions... "and where did that come from? and then? and then?" ad infinitum

I'll play along. They came from the Greek Pantheon, under order from Zeus. I'm a heterodox mystic. Prove me wrong.




I understand your concern. But until you offer a better theory, I'm more inclined to trust professionals.




At one stage this is how religious people resisted theories of gravity, the big bang and the structure of our galaxy. It just doesn't belong in rational discourse. If YOU can identify a problem with these theories, be my guest.




Which part(s) of evolution do you disagree with and on what grounds?
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Always nice to have another good looking newbie come around... take that any way you like.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
Just trying to get to the point where you admit that at some point even your theory relies on faith that it just was. Looks like we got there.
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If "faith" is your debate tactic then that is pretty weak. I have faith that I won't float away... but the theory of gravity remains secure with evidence. I have faith that my children love me... and evidence again shows that they do. I have faith in evolution... and again, evidence shows that it is correct.

Faith in God(s)? No evidence. Mermaids? Unicorns? THAT is the type of faith one can reasonably question.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
Just trying to get to the point where you admit that at some point even your theory relies on faith that it just was. Looks like we got there.
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Stop conflating actual scientific discourse and the merits of faith. Acknowledging simple cells in evolution is crucial in understanding our universe. What's the point in crying out "God did it!" at every hurdle? It doesn't accomplish anything; it doesn't improve our understanding. It is, plain and simple, a God of the Gaps dead-end.



That is a mistake you make...I don't have to have all the answers, only to poke holes in your claims.
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You haven't poked a hole in anything. What part of the theory of potassium 40 development do you disagree with, for example?

No, name calling aside, these are your claims, it is up to you to prove them....All I have to do is question them.
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I can link to scientific studies that argue for these theories if you like... You certainly won't disprove any of it because you will simply cry "BUT ALL DIS COMES FROM GODDDD!"

Not saying I do...Why would you think that?
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You keep asking what came before the building blocks of life. That's irrelevant in actually understanding the mechanics of said blocks.

Bodhisattva said:
Always nice to have another good looking newbie come around... take that any way you like.
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I got a haircut specially for the forum.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Aekos said:
Well, the Far Right want to scrap all benefits and any help extended to those in need. They actively look down on poor people (vide: the poster above suspecting I'm a Wamart worker and hence putting forward "stupid" arguments).
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How educated do you think the average Walmart employee actually is? Do you think that the average Walmart employee has a good grasp of science or history... that they graduated high school with praise for critical thought?
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Bodhisattva said:
How educated do you think the average Walmart employee actually is? Do you think that the average Walmart employee has a good grasp of science or history... that they graduated high school with praise for critical thought?
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You're right, perhaps they didn't. However that doesn't mean every single Walmart employee doesn't have a "praise for critical thought." It's just a strange discussion-tactic to try and claim someone who you don't know behind a computer might be a Walmart employee... because they're using arguments actually supported by science. It's mind-boggling.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Aekos said:
You're right, perhaps they didn't. However that doesn't mean every single Walmart employee doesn't have a "praise for critical thought." It's just a strange discussion-tactic to try and claim someone who you don't know behind a computer might be a Walmart employee... because they're using arguments actually supported by science. It's mind-boggling.
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I am only suggesting that his comment was more about you than a Walmart employee...

There are undoubtedly some very smart Walmart employees, especially as you climb the corporate ladder.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Aekos said:
Stop conflating actual scientific discourse and the merits of faith. Acknowledging simple cells in evolution is crucial in understanding our universe. What's the point in crying out "God did it!" at every hurdle? It doesn't accomplish anything; it doesn't improve our understanding.
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It certainly helped our understanding of volcanoes, tsunamis and other natural disasters.

Hey Steve! Vesuvius just just wiped out Pompeii.

All good Hank... Hades did it. Must of been angry.

...and science learned. Stop being so skeptical... :roll:
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Bodhisattva said:
It certainly helped our understanding of volcanoes, tsunamis and other natural disasters.

Hey Steve! Vesuvius just just wiped out Pompeii.

All good Hank... Hades did it. Must of been angry.

...and science learned. Stop being so skeptical... :roll:
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Humans (as homo sapiens) have existed for 100 000years (some say as long as 250 000years) and Heaven watched indifferently as most died young through damn gum disease; then after 96 000 years Heaven chooses a largely illiterate tribe, never mind the Chinese or Indians who were way more advanced.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Aekos said:
Humans (as homo sapiens) have existed for 100 000years (some say as long as 250 000years) and Heaven watched indifferently as most died young through damn gum disease; then after 96 000 years Heaven chooses a largely illiterate tribe, never mind the Chinese or Indians who were way more advanced.
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The Apache or Cherokee?
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Aekos said:
Humans (as homo sapiens) have existed for 100 000years (some say as long as 250 000years) and Heaven watched indifferently as most died young through damn gum disease; then after 96 000 years Heaven chooses a largely illiterate tribe, never mind the Chinese or Indians who were way more advanced.
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The Chinese didn't/don't believe in the Christian God... so they weren't getting picked. God would pick the retarded little crippled kid for his team before them.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Aekos said:
Stop conflating actual scientific discourse and the merits of faith. Acknowledging simple cells in evolution is crucial in understanding our universe. What's the point in crying out "God did it!" at every hurdle? It doesn't accomplish anything; it doesn't improve our understanding. It is, plain and simple, a God of the Gaps dead-end.
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I am not conflating anything. The fact is, that science has some pretty significant holes in understand the origins of aspects of theories...And I am not saying that "God did" anything, or didn't either....All I am saying is that science doesn't answer everything...

You haven't poked a hole in anything. What part of the theory of potassium 40 development do you disagree with, for example?
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Does all knowledge scientifically begin with potassium 40? In understanding how we came to be, it would make sense to know the start right? If not, and you are saying that science just accepts that at some point things just were, and go from there, then so be it, but don't disparage others for believing in something else at the same time, that also relies on "it just was"....

I can link to scientific studies that argue for these theories if you like... You certainly won't disprove any of it because you will simply cry "BUT ALL DIS COMES FROM GODDDD!"
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Nah, I don't need the studies, it isn't bed time....heh, heh....And I am not crying anything....This would be you labeling me in your anger for not being able to conclusively answer the beginning. That's not my problem...All I am asking you to do is back up your absolute claims.

You keep asking what came before the building blocks of life. That's irrelevant in actually understanding the mechanics of said blocks.
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How many times do I have to tell you that I don't disagree with evolution? Good Lord! Understanding what came before the building blocks would help us understand why the earth is like it is, and how we came to be. You seem to be arguing, or to use your terms "crying" 'IT JUST WAS!' Sorry, that to me is no better answer than a religious person arguing that God created the heavens and the earth in 7 days.

You're right, perhaps they didn't. However that doesn't mean every single Walmart employee doesn't have a "praise for critical thought." It's just a strange discussion-tactic to try and claim someone who you don't know behind a computer might be a Walmart employee... because they're using arguments actually supported by science. It's mind-boggling.
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It is strange to you because I didn't say what you have contorted to ascribing to me here. I simply asked you what qualified you to speak authoritatively on the subject, and I used an example of a Walmart employee because you seemed to be passing yourself off as educated on the subject. I could have used, a grocery store employee, or a McDonald's employee, or any entry level job that most young people have. The "job" isn't the point here, your education to the topic is. That you won't answer that question, and continue to twist what I said instead is telling.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Aekos said:
:lol:
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My stop being skeptical comment was sarcasm... by the way. ;)
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
I am not conflating anything. The fact is, that science has some pretty significant holes in understand the origins of aspects of theories...And I am not saying that "God did" anything, or didn't either....All I am saying is that science doesn't answer everything...
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This statement reveals at the heart of it a rather poor understanding of the goal of science. It isn't to have all the answers about the universe, certainly not in the same way that religion does, but rather to seek all the answers, and in a specifically disciplined way that inevitably necessitates a slow and arduous path. Pros: the answers that you do find with the scientific method are more likely to be accurate. Cons: the pace at which those answers are found is really really really really really really slow.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
I am not conflating anything. The fact is, that science has some pretty significant holes in understand the origins of aspects of theories...And I am not saying that "God did" anything, or didn't either....All I am saying is that science doesn't answer everything...
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Where did I say it answers everything? Modern science has answered many things that we previously did not know. Any human progress in understanding the universe can be attributed to science, not religion.


Does all knowledge scientifically begin with potassium 40? In understanding how we came to be, it would make sense to know the start right? If not, and you are saying that science just accepts that at some point things just were, and go from there, then so be it, but don't disparage others for believing in something else at the same time, that also relies on "it just was"....
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I don't deny God could have started everything. I've just seen no tangible evidence using the scientific method, the building block of logical findings about the natural order, to suggest so. I don't like being speculative. Just because we don't know what the origins of such development theory of potassium 40 are doesn't mean such theories aren't true.

Nah, I don't need the studies, it isn't bed time....heh, heh....And I am not crying anything....This would be you labeling me in your anger for not being able to conclusively answer the beginning. That's not my problem...All I am asking you to do is back up your absolute claims.
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The beginning was God. I concede the point entirely. God started evolution. He is external to the universe and eternal.

OK. Now what? We still need to understand the mechanics of evolution. I'm personally not interested in something we'll never conclusively know: whether a God exists or not. What we can exist on conclusively knowing is how evolution's mechanics work.

How many times do I have to tell you that I don't disagree with evolution? Good Lord! Understanding what came before the building blocks would help us understand why the earth is like it is, and how we came to be. You seem to be arguing, or to use your terms "crying" 'IT JUST WAS!' Sorry, that to me is no better answer than a religious person arguing that God created the heavens and the earth in 7 days.
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OK, describe to me, in detail, using the scientific method, what "came before the building blocks"? I don't deny that it is marvellously fascinating, but rather that it has no place in scientific discussion.

It is strange to you because I didn't say what you have contorted to ascribing to me here. I simply asked you what qualified you to speak authoritatively on the subject, and I used an example of a Walmart employee because you seemed to be passing yourself off as educated on the subject. I could have used, a grocery store employee, or a McDonald's employee, or any entry level job that most young people have. The "job" isn't the point here, your education to the topic is. That you won't answer that question, and continue to twist what I said instead is telling.
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I don't work in the scientific field. That doesn't mean I cannot recite arguments used by the brightest and most qualified on the subject.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
Well, have the Mod's close the thread...Jet has declared in wondrous liberal fashion, just like in Global Warming the debate is over!

Good grief liberals are arrogant.
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There would be no debate if science was accepted.

In this thread you claim that you do not deny science . . . but then you call for debate. Sometimes there just aren't 2-sides to the story.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
Who's denying it? :shrug: I don't disagree that evolution exists, I am only asking questions that try to get to the start....ie; evolved from what? how? when? why?.... But I guess when liberal/progressives are questioned in these ways the only defense to what they can't answer is to label those asking, and calling them stupid, or making crap up about their position that doesn't exist....Way to go Jet, you display this clearly here....

Let the parsing begin.
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Many people on this thread have afforded you the answers to your questions, and either by choice, or by not reading the answers fully, you still want to debate. Therefore, I think most people who believe in evolution would view you as someone who denies the science.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Aekos said:
Where did I say it answers everything? Modern science has answered many things that we previously did not know. Any human progress in understanding the universe can be attributed to science, not religion.
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On that I think we mostly agree, and I would only add that for those that need the comfort of something larger in the grand scheme of life, religion fills that need...I think we agree that science is fascinating, and answers much that is fact. It's kind of like when ever we have friends over and are discussing things like this, my wife often doesn't want to delve that far into things like this because it is awfully hard to wrap your arms around...Like say the question of 'where does the universe end?' She hates that question.

I don't deny God could have started everything. I've just seen no tangible evidence using the scientific method, the building block of logical findings about the natural order, to suggest so. I don't like being speculative. Just because we don't know what the origins of such development theory of potassium 40 are doesn't mean such theories aren't true.
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Never said they weren't...And largely I think we agree.

The beginning was God. I concede the point entirely. God started evolution. He is external to the universe and eternal.
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I agree.

OK. Now what? We still need to understand the mechanics of evolution. I'm personally not interested in something we'll never conclusively know: whether a God exists or not. What we can exist on conclusively knowing is how evolution's mechanics work.
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And I hope that they continue down that path.

OK, describe to me, in detail, using the scientific method, what "came before the building blocks"? I don't deny that it is marvellously fascinating, but rather that it has no place in scientific discussion.
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Couldn't if I wanted to, I am neither a scientist, nor a theologian.

I don't work in the scientific field. That doesn't mean I cannot recite arguments used by the brightest and most qualified on the subject.
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Never said otherwise....As I stated before, it is the mocking of others beliefs in religion that gets me. And since you have already conceded that "God started evolution." then we don't have much of an argument.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

DiavoTheMiavo said:
Many people on this thread have afforded you the answers to your questions, and either by choice, or by not reading the answers fully, you still want to debate. Therefore, I think most people who believe in evolution would view you as someone who denies the science.
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Then they would be wrong.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

DiavoTheMiavo said:
There would be no debate if science was accepted.
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I sure hope that isn't true...Because if so, then we stop learning.

In this thread you claim that you do not deny science . . . but then you call for debate. Sometimes there just aren't 2-sides to the story.
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Absolutism is never a good position to take with unknowns out there.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

j-mac said:
Then they would be wrong.
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Well, perhaps you can explain how this works: "I don't disagree that evolution exists", yet you refuse to accept any answer as it relates to your "questions that try to get to the start." Perhaps it is you who should read the entire thread (advise you have given others), because I have supplied you with some answers myself. Ignoring their existence doesn't mean they aren't there.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

DiavoTheMiavo said:
Well, perhaps you can explain how this works: "I don't disagree that evolution exists", yet you refuse to accept any answer as it relates to your "questions that try to get to the start." Perhaps it is you who should read the entire thread (advise you have given others), because I have supplied you with some answers myself. Ignoring their existence doesn't mean they aren't there.
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I got a littly myopic in my debate with Aekos but in the end we found much to agree on. Maybe my answers to him would help in answering your questions.
 
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