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One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows[W:571]

Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I never saw it as a big deal whether one believed in creationism or evolution. What I find out a lot of times is that a whole bunch of people believe in both at the same time. I never understood why so many people must try to make everyone else believe exactly as they do.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Godless is a self defining term....

No, it is clearly up for interpretation. I've had conservatives tell me that secular morality is "godless". Is Godless referring to personal beliefs or not? Or can it refer to the structure of modern society e.g.: "Western society is now Godless!"

I don't disagree that evolution exists, I am only asking questions that try to get to the start....ie; evolved from what?

Simple cells, prokaryotes.


(Most likely) through potassium 40, a very long lived radioactive isotope of an element that is essential to every living cell. As K40 decays it emits alpha radiation which can damage DNA, if that happens in either egg or sperm then the damage may not be repairable and every genetic variation is evolution in action. Evolution is random, sometimes making improvements sometimes making things worse, if it happens to make an organism slightly better at living within its environment then statistically that organism has a slightly better chance of surviving to reproduce, with millions of offspring over thousands of generations the statistics favour the better suited offspring for each environment.


Officially since bacteria developed primitive forms of photosynthesis which at first did not produce oxygen, about 3500MA ago. But before that, the formation of Greenstone belt of the Isua complex of the western Greenland Region, whose rocks showed an isotope frequency suggestive of the presence of life.


There is no "need" for evolution - it is an inevitable result of the way organisms are constructed and the way they reproduce.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

If humans evolved from monkeys, specifically chimps, then why are there still chimps?

You clearly do not accept evolution. This is an elementary "criticism" not even worth taking the time to explain. I would read this and this if you truly want to understand evolution.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I never saw it as a big deal whether one believed in creationism or evolution. What I find out a lot of times is that a whole bunch of people believe in both at the same time. I never understood why so many people must try to make everyone else believe exactly as they do.

Well, first, you can't really believe the earth is 6000 years old and believe the science behind evolution. The two ideas are contradictory.

Bill Nye put it pretty well. The reason it's so important is that scientifically literate people are important to our nation's future. We're falling behind in math and science, and it's getting worse. America's status as a worldwide leader of science and innovation is at risk. We're a country that went from the Wright Brothers' first flight to landing on the moon in 66 years. Now we're sliding backwards. A growing number of people are rejecting enormous amounts of scientific evidence. Mostly out of spite, I think. Those heathen liberals believe in evolution, so it must be a lie. As Bill said, don't do that to your kids, because we need them.

There are any number of fields of science that one simply cannot succeed in while willfully rejecting so much evidence. And even in an unrelated field, the underlying mindset can seriously hamper your progress, because the ability to mentally suppress acknowledgment of evidence is not a good skill for a scientist.

Perhaps worst of all, in my opinion, is just that creationism is an idea that assists in the suppression of curiosity. It's not everyone, it's not all the time, but I think the push is there. When one blindly accepts a religious text as having all the answers about the universe, there's no need to ask more questions about it. Even if you're not a scientist, someone taking the biblical story of creation literally already "knows" how the universe was created, so why would they become curious about it? And to me, curiosity is God's true gift to mankind, along with the intelligence to act on it. Curiosity got us out of the cave, over the mountain, across the ocean, and into the skies. And to space and back. It's built in. Genetic. Every child goes through that phase. The "why?" phase. "Because God did it" is detrimental to the why. It hampers true understanding, and I don't that's what God would want for us.

And, to be perfectly clear, this isn't everyone. It's not all Christians, nor all people of any other religion. It's not even a majority, I don't think. There are innumerable Christians of any denomination who understand, explore, and advance any field of science. Or even just get curious about them and learn. But I don't think a 6000 year old earth lets you do that. I don't think an Einstein or Hawking can exist within that mindset.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Who's denying it? :shrug: I don't disagree that evolution exists, I am only asking questions that try to get to the start....ie; evolved from what?

A common ancestor.


Evolution


From when the first living organism reproduced until the last living organism is unable to reproduce.


Because living things reproduce.
 
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Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I never saw it as a big deal whether one believed in creationism or evolution. What I find out a lot of times is that a whole bunch of people believe in both at the same time. I never understood why so many people must try to make everyone else believe exactly as they do.

really, there should be no real conflict between evolution and religion. Being that nothing in evolution actually dictates there isn't a god. What it dictates is that there is a natural graduation of change in nature that we can observe and develop a model from. The whys and how this came about isn't even a topic generally addressed in science
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Well, first, you can't really believe the earth is 6000 years old and believe the science behind evolution. The two ideas are contradictory.

Bill Nye put it pretty well. The reason it's so important is that scientifically literate people are important to our nation's future. We're falling behind in math and science, and it's getting worse. America's status as a worldwide leader of science and innovation is at risk. We're a country that went from the Wright Brothers' first flight to landing on the moon in 66 years. Now we're sliding backwards. A growing number of people are rejecting enormous amounts of scientific evidence. Mostly out of spite, I think. Those heathen liberals believe in evolution, so it must be a lie. As Bill said, don't do that to your kids, because we need them.

There are any number of fields of science that one simply cannot succeed in while willfully rejecting so much evidence. And even in an unrelated field, the underlying mindset can seriously hamper your progress, because the ability to mentally suppress acknowledgment of evidence is not a good skill for a scientist.

Perhaps worst of all, in my opinion, is just that creationism is an idea that assists in the suppression of curiosity. It's not everyone, it's not all the time, but I think the push is there. When one blindly accepts a religious text as having all the answers about the universe, there's no need to ask more questions about it. Even if you're not a scientist, someone taking the biblical story of creation literally already "knows" how the universe was created, so why would they become curious about it? And to me, curiosity is God's true gift to mankind, along with the intelligence to act on it. Curiosity got us out of the cave, over the mountain, across the ocean, and into the skies. And to space and back. It's built in. Genetic. Every child goes through that phase. The "why?" phase. "Because God did it" is detrimental to the why. It hampers true understanding, and I don't that's what God would want for us.

And, to be perfectly clear, this isn't everyone. It's not all Christians, nor all people of any other religion. It's not even a majority, I don't think. There are innumerable Christians of any denomination who understand, explore, and advance any field of science. Or even just get curious about them and learn. But I don't think a 6000 year old earth lets you do that. I don't think an Einstein or Hawking can exist within that mindset.

It is my understanding that someone sat down with the bible and used the genealogy listed in it to determine the 6000 years you talk about. As for falling behind in the core subjects, it is a result of the dumbing down of our public school system. I am an old fart who graduated high school in the early 60's. When my daughter went to college and brought her homework home, I found out she was learning in college what I learned back in my high school days. I came to the conclusion my High School education was about the same as 2 years of college now.

I do not think whether a belief in creation or evolution or both stymie's curiosity at all. Mankind is a species that is always searching for answers to the unknown. If a few show no interest, well you will always have your 10% as the old adage goes. Also my dad became very religious and he scoffed at this 6000 year thing that has been put forth. He said there is no way of know how old the earth is and just adding up generations as stated in the bible will not provide that answer. To him, when the earth was created didn't matter. 6000 years or a couple of billion years, to him god created the heavens and the earth. Time had no meaning when he did this, time has meaning today, but not then. That was just his view.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

You clearly do not accept evolution. This is an elementary "criticism" not even worth taking the time to explain. I would read this and this if you truly want to understand evolution.

Already explained, (earlier in the thread..) I see you didn't take my advice about going back to make sure you know my position before you look foolish making assumptions about it...
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

really, there should be no real conflict between evolution and religion. Being that nothing in evolution actually dictates there isn't a god. What it dictates is that there is a natural graduation of change in nature that we can observe and develop a model from. The whys and how this came about isn't even a topic generally addressed in science

I agree. But it seems some people equate this 6000 year thing with creationism. To me faith is faith and science is science, but even so one of faith can delve deeply into science and be a boon to mankind.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Already explained, (earlier in the thread..) I see you didn't take my advice about going back to make sure you know my position before you look foolish making assumptions about it...

I answered all your questions on evolution at the top of this page. Review those answers, attempt to reconcile those with your religion, rinse and repeat.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

You clearly do not accept evolution. This is an elementary "criticism" not even worth taking the time to explain. I would read this and this if you truly want to understand evolution.

Clearly huh? That is false.

Simple cells, prokaryotes.

Where did prokaryotes come from?

(Most likely)...

"Most likely" - Meaning you don't know for a certainty?

(1.)Officially since bacteria developed primitive forms of photosynthesis which at first did not produce oxygen, about 3500MA ago. But before that, the formation of Greenstone belt of the Isua complex of the western Greenland Region, (2.)whose rocks showed an isotope frequency suggestive of the presence of life.

(1.) These are the theories yes, and I have no problem accepting those looking at these things want to know the same things the average person does in terms of how life began, I find it interesting.

(2.) Terms like "suggestive" are commonly used in evolution theory largely because there are holes that can not be explained. That is all I am saying.

There is no "need" for evolution - it is an inevitable result of the way organisms are constructed and the way they reproduce.

But not all organisms right? I mean, you can't say that with absolute definity when there is so much about our own earth, much less the entirety of the universe that hasn't been scientifically proven.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I answered all your questions on evolution at the top of this page. Review those answers, attempt to reconcile those with your religion, rinse and repeat.

Before I take your supposed conclusions as credible in the scientific sense, you'd have to lay out your bonafides. You know, why should I believe what you have to say? For all I know, you're a Walmart employee with too much time on his hands....:mrgreen:
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Where did prokaryotes come from?

Protobionts



"Most likely" - Meaning you don't know for a certainty?

It is a theory favourable with most scientists who are more qualified than you or I. I trust them more than an ancient book, that's for sure.

(1.) These are the theories yes, and I have no problem accepting those looking at these things want to know the same things the average person does in terms of how life began, I find it interesting.

(2.) Terms like "suggestive" are commonly used in evolution theory largely because there are holes that can not be explained. That is all I am saying.

Suggestive merely says that in all likelihood, or most probably.

But not all organisms right? I mean, you can't say that with absolute definity when there is so much about our own earth, much less the entirety of the universe that hasn't been scientifically proven.

I can assure you that contemporary scientists have discovered more than any religion has claimed to. Simply because some things (like dark energy, dark matter) are not known doesn't mean that what we currently know and theorise about is untrue.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Before I take your supposed conclusions as credible in the scientific sense, you'd have to lay out your bonafides. You know, why should I believe what you have to say? For all I know, you're a Walmart employee with too much time on his hands....:mrgreen:

Yeah, that's me. I'm a minority, homosexual, Walmart employee who sucks on the welfare state and is married to an illegal immigrant who raises children to gain more welfare payments. I'm a Satanist with Pagan roots. I'm a favourite with conservatives.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Back to reality: your absurd claim that my career someone discredits my reporting of what scientists generally agree on is laughable.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I would not be too worried about it, even a WalMart employee would understand why there are chimps. Wonder why the shot at walmart employees?
Back to reality: your absurd claim that my career someone discredits my reporting of what scientists generally agree on is laughable.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I would not be too worried about it, even a WalMart employee would understand why there are chimps. Wonder why the shot at walmart employees?

People who are in tough situations are always despised by conservatives. It only affirms my thesis that social-darwinism is the central tenet of the Far Right.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

People who are in tough situations are always despised by conservatives. It only affirms my thesis that social-darwinism is the central tenet of the Far Right.

lol...
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows


Well, the Far Right want to scrap all benefits and any help extended to those in need. They actively look down on poor people (vide: the poster above suspecting I'm a Wamart worker and hence putting forward "stupid" arguments).
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Protobionts

And they, from where? Keep going.

It is a theory favourable with most scientists who are more qualified than you or I. I trust them more than an ancient book, that's for sure.

Good for you...I am not saying that they are wrong, only that they don't have the exact answers...They certainly are well educated, and many have devoted their lives to answering questions like this, for that I am in amazement. But when you hide behind "probably", "maybe", "most likely'', and such then turn and denigrate those who don't think like you do, you tend to look not only intolerant, but foolish.

Suggestive merely says that in all likelihood, or most probably.

Or "maybe", or "could be", or "I don't know".....

I can assure you that contemporary scientists have discovered more than any religion has claimed to. Simply because some things (like dark energy, dark matter) are not known doesn't mean that what we currently know and theorise about is untrue.

So that's the choice you falsely ascribe to me? Either I accept all of your theory, or none of it? False choice.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Yeah, that's me. I'm a minority, homosexual, Walmart employee who sucks on the welfare state and is married to an illegal immigrant who raises children to gain more welfare payments. I'm a Satanist with Pagan roots. I'm a favourite with conservatives.


That's it, take it to the absurd....I wouldn't expect less of a liberal.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

I would not be too worried about it, even a WalMart employee would understand why there are chimps. Wonder why the shot at walmart employees?

You know better Mak.....
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

People who are in tough situations are always despised by conservatives.

Pure lie.

It only affirms my thesis that social-darwinism is the central tenet of the Far Right.

Less than 50 postings, and so far you have proven yourself quite run of the mill as liberal posters go in here...nothing special.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Well, the Far Right want to scrap all benefits and any help extended to those in need.

Lie

They actively look down on poor people

Lie

the poster above suspecting I'm a Wamart worker and hence putting forward "stupid" arguments

Lie...

Nothing you spewed in that post is anywhere near honest.
 
Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

Well, the Far Right want to scrap all benefits and any help extended to those in need.

1st: you're now shifting your goal posts (originally it was simply the conservatives)

2nd: one can want to limit or end such state programs for any number of reasons, even under the eronious assumption that the long term effect would actually benefit the poor


They actively look down on poor people (vide: the poster above suspecting I'm a Wamart worker and hence putting forward "stupid" arguments).

questioning your ability to speak on a subject isn't the same as putting you down
 
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