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Thread: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows[W:571]

  1. #81
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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    There are Jews who believe that too? Damn, that's depressing.
    The more fundamentalist you as a person of the book, the more likely you accept creationism. I always thought it was kind of funny how die hard super religious conservatives share a number of beliefs with Islamic crazies. And the ultra conservative Jews are in some ways no different from the ultra conservative Muslims.
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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I guess that depends on your point of view. Sure, on one hand dogs we've bred to be lapdogs would be terribly suited for the wild, but if it exhibits the right traits we'll be more likely to breed it. In any case I'm not sure how well the topic of breeding fits in with natural selection.
    I knew I should have qualified. Doesnt mean the mutations or traits are negative to OUR uses or even the pets or livestock or crops themselves. Just that they would NOT be beneficial in natural populations.

    And we pay the price for focusing on those 'mutations.' They are highly exploited and we see the consequences in overbreeding everywhere. I see it in dogs and horses. Certain lines of cutting horses in the Quarter Horse breed have concentrated a gene for a disease that affects skin collagen and causes the skin to tear easily...like when a saddle is used. It took from about the 60's to 8 yrs ago before the gene....extremely rare before...become common in those lines....unfortunately when breeders focused on cow sense and other athletic abilities, the gene for HERDA was carried along with them....thru one sire (now that they've traced it...took yrs).

    Other QH breeders have intentionally concentrated on a line of horses with a disease that weakens muscles and causes horse to collapse...all because the physiological "form" of the horse conforms to a certain look that became 'trendy.'

    The examples among dog breeds are legion. As they are with crops.

    We cannot (as yet) predict the results of our breeding efforts where we focus on only positive traits because genes are not 'solitary' things....well they are but they are grouped on our chromosomes in pieces and that shuffling cannot be predicted.

    However for generations farmers and breeders and humans HAVE recognized the need for outbreeding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Point is that species change even if they don't appear to have. The coelacanth was initially believed to not have changed from fossils until people started looking harder at it. The coelacanth from the fossil record is quite different from the coelacanth swimming off the coast of Madagascar.
    Every individual is 'different' genetically. From their parents, from anything, so I'm not sure what your point is. It's not evolution and it's not speciation. Genes are shuffled a great deal (understatement) in every population. That is diversity...that is any population's greatest strength. Is that what you are referring to?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Don't forget the banana. That's our greatest nightmare, you know.
    Thank you! I'm supposed to eat a banana before bed for the potassium! And I always forget. It's good for promoting sleep.

    *goes to kitchen for banana*
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Every individual is 'different' genetically. From their parents, from anything, so I'm not sure what your point is. It's not evolution and it's not speciation. Genes are shuffled a great deal (understatement) in every population. That is diversity...that is any population's greatest strength. Is that what you are referring to?
    I'm just pointing out that merely because a species like the horseshoe crab doesn't appear to have changed much in eons doesn't mean it actually hasn't changed much in eons. FYI, you should check out the WND and other forums on this topic. So many dumb users saying there are no transitional fossils and that evolution is nothing but a lie.

    Boy, makes me ashamed to be an American. Idiots like that running all over the country.
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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I'm just pointing out that merely because a species like the horseshoe crab doesn't appear to have changed much in eons doesn't mean it actually hasn't changed much in eons. FYI, you should check out the WND and other forums on this topic. So many dumb users saying there are no transitional fossils and that evolution is nothing but a lie.

    Boy, makes me ashamed to be an American. Idiots like that running all over the country.
    I think I see what you mean. Even humans have evolved over the last 10,000 or so (random number). I study, non-professionally, epidemiology and there are good examples there of how different geographical human populations have evolved different immune systems and genetic traits as adaptions to environmentally-specific diseases and mineral deficiencies.

    I can make a recommendation for an excellent book on that, if you are interested.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    What's missing at the heart of your question is an understanding of time and geological isolation that allows speciation to occur. If you have one species and a group of that species migrates to another location, in time (a long, long time), that group will evolve into a species that is different from the original. Should those two groups meet up again and attempt to mate, they will either not be able to reproduce or its young will be sterile. With enough speciation the two wouldn't even dream of attempting to mate with each other.
    Time I understand, better than most probably since I find it very easy to think of it arithmetically. I question if the Earth is old enough considering the number of successful mutations that would have to occur to get from say, a primitive cell, to an emu. Especially if the mutations have to be minor enough not to destroy the individual, and slow enough to not destroy the species.

    I mean, a propensity to cancer or a loss of ability to assimilate or synthesize vital chemicals seem a far greater likely out come of random binary code alterations than a longer neck to reach higher foliage, doesn't it? Look what happens sometimes when a single bit goes funky in our computer operating system. Imagine that this were computer software, which is just a different binary code, performing at a similar level of complexity, with a similar random alteration to the code and similar installations in new devices while old devices were turned off or recycled with the newer software. It I came back in say a billion years, I wouldn't expect to find the world filled with a variety of elegant software and operating systems, I'd expect to find fossilized junk. To be honest, I'd expect that if I came back in ten years.

    This would be true even it you added a filtering system that promoted the "most fit" alterations, because in general, the alterations would lessen function or destroy it.

    But if I'm wrong then it doesn't matter either, because then we're just dirt machines running a program for a short while an neither we, nor anything we ever do has the slightest meaning.

    Again, I'm not rejecting the idea of evolution, or natural selection, it just seem to me that something else is going on here.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    There's interbreeding (a male donkey and a female horse = mule). These hybrid animals cannot reproduce. Mules don't have mule babies. They are mere a byproduct of mating between two similar species.

    Then there's evolution - passing down strong genetic traits generation to generation.

    Example of a 'mutant' as you're labeling it would be a child born with a myostatin deficiency - a condition which causes excessive muscle growth. If the child receives the genetic mutation from one parent, their anomalies won't be quite so noticeable. If they receive it from both parents they're going to be noticeably stronger - visually - a little Hercules. If such a person has children with another person who is, also, mystatin deficient, the odds are high that they'll pass that onto their kids. So on - so forth.

    The genetic passing stops when the trait comes to an end.
    Thank you for a good response indeed!

    I'm realty trying to ask how a new species --especially one with different numbers of chromosomes that its antecedent could reach a second generation. I suppose that a litter with a bother and sister could be born with the mutation and breed -- an act that is generally thought to decrease survival odds, but many animals only give birth to one offspring at a time. (Or two in the case of bald eagle, as I understand it, with the parents executing the smaller in its infancy. Ma Nature is such a dear!)
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    It baffles me that people can "reject" evolution when it happens, observably, every single day with antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

    Life adapts.
    Yeah, when one of these people that don't believe in evolution gets a MRSA or MSSA infection, they can just pray it away.

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows





    Okay - who here rejects evolution?

    Show of hands please.


    "Republicans" are growing skeptical???? Really?

    Like there's growing evidence against evolution?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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