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Thread: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows[W:571]

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    I never saw it as a big deal whether one believed in creationism or evolution. What I find out a lot of times is that a whole bunch of people believe in both at the same time. I never understood why so many people must try to make everyone else believe exactly as they do.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Godless is a self defining term....
    No, it is clearly up for interpretation. I've had conservatives tell me that secular morality is "godless". Is Godless referring to personal beliefs or not? Or can it refer to the structure of modern society e.g.: "Western society is now Godless!"

    I don't disagree that evolution exists, I am only asking questions that try to get to the start....ie; evolved from what?
    Simple cells, prokaryotes.

    how?
    (Most likely) through potassium 40, a very long lived radioactive isotope of an element that is essential to every living cell. As K40 decays it emits alpha radiation which can damage DNA, if that happens in either egg or sperm then the damage may not be repairable and every genetic variation is evolution in action. Evolution is random, sometimes making improvements sometimes making things worse, if it happens to make an organism slightly better at living within its environment then statistically that organism has a slightly better chance of surviving to reproduce, with millions of offspring over thousands of generations the statistics favour the better suited offspring for each environment.

    when?
    Officially since bacteria developed primitive forms of photosynthesis which at first did not produce oxygen, about 3500MA ago. But before that, the formation of Greenstone belt of the Isua complex of the western Greenland Region, whose rocks showed an isotope frequency suggestive of the presence of life.

    why?....
    There is no "need" for evolution - it is an inevitable result of the way organisms are constructed and the way they reproduce.

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    If humans evolved from monkeys, specifically chimps, then why are there still chimps?
    You clearly do not accept evolution. This is an elementary "criticism" not even worth taking the time to explain. I would read this and this if you truly want to understand evolution.

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I never saw it as a big deal whether one believed in creationism or evolution. What I find out a lot of times is that a whole bunch of people believe in both at the same time. I never understood why so many people must try to make everyone else believe exactly as they do.
    Well, first, you can't really believe the earth is 6000 years old and believe the science behind evolution. The two ideas are contradictory.

    Bill Nye put it pretty well. The reason it's so important is that scientifically literate people are important to our nation's future. We're falling behind in math and science, and it's getting worse. America's status as a worldwide leader of science and innovation is at risk. We're a country that went from the Wright Brothers' first flight to landing on the moon in 66 years. Now we're sliding backwards. A growing number of people are rejecting enormous amounts of scientific evidence. Mostly out of spite, I think. Those heathen liberals believe in evolution, so it must be a lie. As Bill said, don't do that to your kids, because we need them.

    There are any number of fields of science that one simply cannot succeed in while willfully rejecting so much evidence. And even in an unrelated field, the underlying mindset can seriously hamper your progress, because the ability to mentally suppress acknowledgment of evidence is not a good skill for a scientist.

    Perhaps worst of all, in my opinion, is just that creationism is an idea that assists in the suppression of curiosity. It's not everyone, it's not all the time, but I think the push is there. When one blindly accepts a religious text as having all the answers about the universe, there's no need to ask more questions about it. Even if you're not a scientist, someone taking the biblical story of creation literally already "knows" how the universe was created, so why would they become curious about it? And to me, curiosity is God's true gift to mankind, along with the intelligence to act on it. Curiosity got us out of the cave, over the mountain, across the ocean, and into the skies. And to space and back. It's built in. Genetic. Every child goes through that phase. The "why?" phase. "Because God did it" is detrimental to the why. It hampers true understanding, and I don't that's what God would want for us.

    And, to be perfectly clear, this isn't everyone. It's not all Christians, nor all people of any other religion. It's not even a majority, I don't think. There are innumerable Christians of any denomination who understand, explore, and advance any field of science. Or even just get curious about them and learn. But I don't think a 6000 year old earth lets you do that. I don't think an Einstein or Hawking can exist within that mindset.
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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Who's denying it? I don't disagree that evolution exists, I am only asking questions that try to get to the start....ie; evolved from what?
    A common ancestor.

    how?
    Evolution

    when?
    From when the first living organism reproduced until the last living organism is unable to reproduce.

    why?
    Because living things reproduce.
    Last edited by Ben K.; 01-03-14 at 11:28 AM.

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I never saw it as a big deal whether one believed in creationism or evolution. What I find out a lot of times is that a whole bunch of people believe in both at the same time. I never understood why so many people must try to make everyone else believe exactly as they do.
    really, there should be no real conflict between evolution and religion. Being that nothing in evolution actually dictates there isn't a god. What it dictates is that there is a natural graduation of change in nature that we can observe and develop a model from. The whys and how this came about isn't even a topic generally addressed in science

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Well, first, you can't really believe the earth is 6000 years old and believe the science behind evolution. The two ideas are contradictory.

    Bill Nye put it pretty well. The reason it's so important is that scientifically literate people are important to our nation's future. We're falling behind in math and science, and it's getting worse. America's status as a worldwide leader of science and innovation is at risk. We're a country that went from the Wright Brothers' first flight to landing on the moon in 66 years. Now we're sliding backwards. A growing number of people are rejecting enormous amounts of scientific evidence. Mostly out of spite, I think. Those heathen liberals believe in evolution, so it must be a lie. As Bill said, don't do that to your kids, because we need them.

    There are any number of fields of science that one simply cannot succeed in while willfully rejecting so much evidence. And even in an unrelated field, the underlying mindset can seriously hamper your progress, because the ability to mentally suppress acknowledgment of evidence is not a good skill for a scientist.

    Perhaps worst of all, in my opinion, is just that creationism is an idea that assists in the suppression of curiosity. It's not everyone, it's not all the time, but I think the push is there. When one blindly accepts a religious text as having all the answers about the universe, there's no need to ask more questions about it. Even if you're not a scientist, someone taking the biblical story of creation literally already "knows" how the universe was created, so why would they become curious about it? And to me, curiosity is God's true gift to mankind, along with the intelligence to act on it. Curiosity got us out of the cave, over the mountain, across the ocean, and into the skies. And to space and back. It's built in. Genetic. Every child goes through that phase. The "why?" phase. "Because God did it" is detrimental to the why. It hampers true understanding, and I don't that's what God would want for us.

    And, to be perfectly clear, this isn't everyone. It's not all Christians, nor all people of any other religion. It's not even a majority, I don't think. There are innumerable Christians of any denomination who understand, explore, and advance any field of science. Or even just get curious about them and learn. But I don't think a 6000 year old earth lets you do that. I don't think an Einstein or Hawking can exist within that mindset.
    It is my understanding that someone sat down with the bible and used the genealogy listed in it to determine the 6000 years you talk about. As for falling behind in the core subjects, it is a result of the dumbing down of our public school system. I am an old fart who graduated high school in the early 60's. When my daughter went to college and brought her homework home, I found out she was learning in college what I learned back in my high school days. I came to the conclusion my High School education was about the same as 2 years of college now.

    I do not think whether a belief in creation or evolution or both stymie's curiosity at all. Mankind is a species that is always searching for answers to the unknown. If a few show no interest, well you will always have your 10% as the old adage goes. Also my dad became very religious and he scoffed at this 6000 year thing that has been put forth. He said there is no way of know how old the earth is and just adding up generations as stated in the bible will not provide that answer. To him, when the earth was created didn't matter. 6000 years or a couple of billion years, to him god created the heavens and the earth. Time had no meaning when he did this, time has meaning today, but not then. That was just his view.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Aekos View Post
    You clearly do not accept evolution. This is an elementary "criticism" not even worth taking the time to explain. I would read this and this if you truly want to understand evolution.
    Already explained, (earlier in the thread..) I see you didn't take my advice about going back to make sure you know my position before you look foolish making assumptions about it...
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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    really, there should be no real conflict between evolution and religion. Being that nothing in evolution actually dictates there isn't a god. What it dictates is that there is a natural graduation of change in nature that we can observe and develop a model from. The whys and how this came about isn't even a topic generally addressed in science
    I agree. But it seems some people equate this 6000 year thing with creationism. To me faith is faith and science is science, but even so one of faith can delve deeply into science and be a boon to mankind.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: One-third of Americans reject evolution, poll shows

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Already explained, (earlier in the thread..) I see you didn't take my advice about going back to make sure you know my position before you look foolish making assumptions about it...
    I answered all your questions on evolution at the top of this page. Review those answers, attempt to reconcile those with your religion, rinse and repeat.

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