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Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
A small majority in 2008. If you cannot understand that public opinion and therefore voting results change with time, particularly with issues such as this, then you are simply ignoring facts.
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The vote shows against, your hopes show not against.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Cool, but the majority voted against it in California.
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What if it was put to a vote today? Public opinion has changed. Anyhows public opinion should not have sway on individual rights like marriage.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

winston53660 said:
What if it was put to a vote today? Public opinion has changed. Anyhows public opinion should not have sway on individual rights like marriage.
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Probably win.

Rights don't exist but yes, democracy is tyranny.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
The vote shows against, your hopes show not against.
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A vote from 2008. It doesn't go against anything I said. It is like trying to say that the vote in 1960 shows that the vast majority of Southern Americans want to see interracial couples in prison for attempting to get married or living together. It is wrong because the vote is outdated.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
A vote from 2008. It doesn't go against anything I said. It is like trying to say that the vote in 1960 shows that the vast majority of Southern Americans want to see interracial couples in prison for attempting to get married or living together. It is wrong because the vote is outdated.
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They voted against gay marriage. If it was held today it would be easier to pass gay marriage because less minorities would be voting.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Probably win.

Rights don't exist but yes, democracy is tyranny.
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Oh jesh you are so full of it. Be ignorant of things like the Magna Catra and what not. With an id like scatt what else is one to expect though
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
They voted against gay marriage. If it was held today it would be easier to pass gay marriage because less minorities would be voting.
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It was voted against in 2008. That is what we have been trying to tell you. Votes are meaningless in this debate when it comes to validity because they become outdated pretty shortly after they occur, particularly if they are taken on the cusp of an raising trend where the vote did not reflect that trend, but only by a small margin, which is exactly what happened with Prop 8. Basically it rode the very coattails of the downslide of support for banning same sex marriage in California public opinion and squeaked in at the right time. It likely would not have even passed a year later, let alone 5 years, as it has now been.

The reason that it would be easier to get same sex marriage to pass in this state now is because of all the reasons we see the rising trend in same sex across the US. The majority of the opposition comes from two fronts, conservative Christians and older generations. Older generations naturally grow old and die. That is part of life. That dwindles those numbers at a pretty steady pace while the number of supporters for same sex marriage when it comes to voters each year because each year we have more people reaching voting age. There is also a slow decline in conservative Christians, especially those so fixed in their beliefs that they hold onto them despite changing opinion of the world around them.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
It was voted against in 2008. That is what we have been trying to tell you. Votes are meaningless in this debate when it comes to validity because they become outdated pretty shortly after they occur, particularly if they are taken on the cusp of an raising trend where the vote did not reflect that trend, but only by a small margin, which is exactly what happened with Prop 8. Basically it rode the very coattails of the downslide of support for banning same sex marriage in California public opinion and squeaked in at the right time. It likely would not have even passed a year later, let alone 5 years, as it has now been.

The reason that it would be easier to get same sex marriage to pass in this state now is because of all the reasons we see the rising trend in same sex across the US. The majority of the opposition comes from two fronts, conservative Christians and older generations. Older generations naturally grow old and die. That is part of life. That dwindles those numbers at a pretty steady pace while the number of supporters for same sex marriage when it comes to voters each year because each year we have more people reaching voting age. There is also a slow decline in conservative Christians, especially those so fixed in their beliefs that they hold onto them despite changing opinion of the world around them.
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A lot of conservative christians in the democrat stronghold of California?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
A lot of conservative christians in the democrat stronghold of California?
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Yes. Millions of them.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
The only numbers there are is the vote against gay marriage.
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Not true: Maine, Maryland and Washington legalized gay marriage per voter referendum. Oregon is voting in November, 2014.

scatt said:
A lot of conservative christians in the democrat stronghold of California?
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Yes. Even counting just Republicans, there are more Republican voters in California than there are in Texas.

California 2012 - 4,839,958 Romney
Texas 2012 - 4,569,843 Romney

California 1984 - 5,467,009 Reagan
Texas 1984 - 3,433,428 Regan
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

brothern said:
Not true: Maine, Maryland and Washington legalized gay marriage per voter referendum. Oregon is voting in November, 2014.

Yes. Even counting just Republicans, there are more Republican voters in California than there are in Texas.

California 2012 - 4,839,958 Romney
Texas 2012 - 4,569,843 Romney

California 1984 - 5,467,009 Reagan
Texas 1984 - 3,433,428 Regan
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It is only not true if I was mentioning something other than California (which I wasn't).

Texas has what, 60% of the population of California?

Deuce said:
Yes. Millions of them.
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A majority?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Anthony60 said:
I can't help your inability to understand the statement.




So, are you stating that a judicial decision could be wrong??? Like this one.



I guess I just have to be blunt instead of being nice. It is stupid when you get it wrong.
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If you say something bigoted then you are making a bigoted statement. I am not sure why that is hard to understand. You may not think that you are a bigot, and maybe you really aren't, but in wanting to deny people rights you label yourself as a bigot.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

winston53660 said:
What if it was put to a vote today? Public opinion has changed. Anyhows public opinion should not have sway on individual rights like marriage.
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I would not put Big Money on it failing in California today. Without the money poured into prop 8 by the Mormon and Catholic church, it wouldn't have succeeded in 2008. No way would it pass today.

And again - who cares? the majority can't vote away constitutional rights, no matter how hard they try.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
Equal Protection Clause of the US Constitution. It really isn't that hard to figure out unless you simply don't like that Clause or don't approve of more freedom for everyone and would rather use the Constitution to restrict rights, particularly individual rights, rather than prevent the government from taking away/denying freedoms, even by the votes of the majority.
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I'm not sure what you are saying. If you look at my post that you captioned and your response, they have nothing to do with one another.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Bodhisattva said:
If you say something bigoted then you are making a bigoted statement.
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No one is disagreeing with that, Captain Obvious.

I am not sure why that is hard to understand. You may not think that you are a bigot, and maybe you really aren't, but in wanting to deny people rights you label yourself as a bigot.
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...and there is the stupid part.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Anthony60 said:
No one is disagreeing with that, Captain Obvious.



...and there is the stupid part.
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And what is stupid about it. It is an accurate description.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
So just the "bulk" were a decade ago?

The bulk of gay marriage has been approved not by a majority of the voters, but court order or legislation.
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Same as inter-racial marriage
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Bodhisattva said:
And what is stupid about it. It is an accurate description.
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I'm really kind of done with this. You have chosen to just hide behind a tired, inaccurate strategy of name calling. You could have tried to present a fact based argument, but you haven't. So come back when you've got something legitimate, for now you are a waste of time.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

A great way to end 2013. Having lived in Utah for 25 years, I never thought I would see the day that loving gay couples would be able to marry the person they loved. Love is prevailing over hate....and even more to come in 2014!!!
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

disneydude said:
A great way to end 2013. Having lived in Utah for 25 years, I never thought I would see the day that loving gay couples would be able to marry the person they loved. Love is prevailing over hate....and even more to come in 2014!!!
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Excellent point!! "Love is in the Air"! and now I'm flashing back on the ending of "Strictly Ballroom" which we just watched again a few days ago - and there were same sex couples dancing in the big finale!

Who would have thought we'd get to this point???? Pretty amazing!
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
A lot of conservative christians in the democrat stronghold of California?
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Plenty here. Just because you are unaware of this doesn't mean they don't exist. Pretty sure I live in the same neighborhood as a number of them here in San Diego (granted, most of the ones I live near likely aren't registered to vote here though). But considering here in this "democrat stronghold of California" my son's school has signs advertising that some church uses school property for their services pretty much throughout the year, I'd say it isn't nearly as much of a "heathen stronghold" as many wish to believe.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
A majority?
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The claim I made had nothing to do with there being a majority of Christians in the state of California, but rather that there is enough to have a significant influence when it comes to a vote on an issue. If there is a reduction in their numbers or simply a change in their beliefs on that one issue, then that would also affect how a vote on that issue turned out.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

paddymcdougall said:
Excellent point!! "Love is in the Air"! and now I'm flashing back on the ending of "Strictly Ballroom" which we just watched again a few days ago - and there were same sex couples dancing in the big finale!

Who would have thought we'd get to this point???? Pretty amazing!
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I have posted occasionally elsewhere that someday, we will look back at this political battle and be embarrassed that our society was so ignorant...even if unintentionally so...much like we do now looking back at those who chose to deny women and blacks equal rights...or to even consider them less or less deserving.

I do not want to be part of the generation who 'prevented' gays from marrying and establishing their equal rights in our society. I dont want to look back and be embarrassed.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Anthony60 said:
I'm not sure what you are saying. If you look at my post that you captioned and your response, they have nothing to do with one another.
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You claimed that marriage or same sex marriage laws were not part of the Constitution. They are covered by it, even if they are not specifically mentioned and the part is what I mentioned, EPC of the 14th.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
The claim I made had nothing to do with there being a majority of Christians in the state of California, but rather that there is enough to have a significant influence when it comes to a vote on an issue. If there is a reduction in their numbers or simply a change in their beliefs on that one issue, then that would also affect how a vote on that issue turned out.
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roguenuke said:
Plenty here. Pretty sure I live in the same neighborhood as a number of them here in San Diego (granted, most of the ones I live near likely aren't registered to vote here though). But considering here in this "democrat stronghold of California" my son's school has signs advertising that some church uses school property for their services pretty much throughout the year, I'd say it isn't nearly as much of a "heathen stronghold" as many wish to believe.
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7 million votes for prop 8, about 5 million registered republicans (some percentage are christian conservatives, some percentage are not, some percentage didn't even vote). At least 2 million democrats and independents were against it in a democrat windfall election.
 
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