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Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
You already admitted that the govt cant discriminate against them by not allowing them to teach. So if you dont want your kids taught by gays, those are your options.
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government cannot discriminate because it serves all of the people, it cannot also violate the right of citizens, and making people of faith, be taught by the public school system against ones faith, its a violate of religious freedom, ..because the government forces people to go to schools.

the government is not a moral authority to teach anyone values.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
You are right...but no one is teaching 'homosexuality.'

And that's also why you cant teach creationism in science classes. I'm glad at least that is clear, so it's just that you dont like being around gays. Then you have the choice not to be or have your kids in a school with gay teachers....homeschool them or send them to private school.

Or, teach your children what YOU BELIEVE at home, just like everyone else. How do you think being taught by a gay teacher will harm them? Again, it's not 'taught' and it's not contagious.
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I didn't say they are teaching the act........they are teaching it is sociality acceptable in our society and government has no authority to do that.

you and the people who believe as you do ,to not own the public school system, to run it according to your dictates.

people as yourself, hate the idea of force when it is used on you, however love to use it on other people.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Navy Pride said:
The left is constantly trying to brainwash our children. They tried it with my son and now my grand children.........It did not work with any of them.
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Then I guess you have no case at all since the role of parents and grandparents worked properly.

Of course I do not 'buy' that your grandchildren or children were the victims of brainwashing...but apparently if parents take responsibility as they should, there should be nothing to worry about.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
really...then give those people who pay for schools thru their taxes....... their money back then.
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I pay taxes that go to schools and have no kids...what is your point?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
I pay taxes that go to schools and have no kids...what is your point?
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that your telling people if they don't like the school leave, well they pay taxes, if the schools are going to teach things that are against one religious faith [a rights violation], ..then give them their money and they can go.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
government cannot discriminate because it serves all of the people, it cannot also violate the right of citizens, and making people of faith, be taught by the public school system against ones faith, its a violate of religious freedom, ..because the government forces people to go to schools.

the government is not a moral authority to teach anyone values.
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Your faith is not being violated....no one is teaching homosexuality. Your kids are just as likely (if not more) to be exposed to adulterers, people living in sin, etc as they are gays and THOSE things are not being taught either. How are you preventing your kids/grandkids from being turned into adulterers or people who live with others without the sanctity of marriage? Or promiscuous teachers? Are they teaching your kids to sleep around?

You cannot pick and choose in the public school system. If you dont like it, send your kids somewhere else. No one forces you to use the public school system.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
are you saying the bill of right applies only to states.....

because under the original idea of the bill of rights, you would be correct..... however after the civil war, the USSC ruled the bill of rights now applies to the states.

so its not that simple.
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Sure it is. You asked why it is ok for a school to teach values, but not teach religion....simple....the Constitution prohibits the state from being involved in religion. It does not prohibit the state from involvement in teaching values. Perhaps you are one of those who believe that only those who are religious zealots have values....?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
that your telling people if they don't like the school leave, well they pay taxes, if the schools are going to teach things that are against one religious faith [a rights violation], ..then give them their money and they can go.
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Sure, and give me my money back too.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
that your telling people if they don't like the school leave, well they pay taxes, if the schools are going to teach things that are against one religious faith [a rights violation], ..then give them their money and they can go.
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If you belong to a church that teaches hatred, bigotry, discrimination ....then your religion is teaching you all the wrong values...certainly not true Christian values.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
I didn't say they are teaching the act........they are teaching it is sociality acceptable in our society and government has no authority to do that.

you and the people who believe as you do ,to not own the public school system, to run it according to your dictates.

people as yourself, hate the idea of force when it is used on you, however love to use it on other people.
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Lursa said:
I find the whole drama over 'teaching homosexuality' in schools to soon become a historical footnote.

Schools do not 'teach homosexuality.' They teach 'inclusion' so that all in schools have a safe, positive place conducive to learning (supposedly).

In days past, people also moralized over bastards and divorcees. Those children, and children of divorce, were 'excluded' based on other people's judgments. No one ever *taught* that being a single mother was good or that divorce was good....but condemnation is only harmful.Today, we accept the children of single mothers and divorced homes. What is the point in excluding them? That is only harmful.
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.............................................
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

disneydude said:
Sure it is. You asked why it is ok for a school to teach values, but not teach religion....simple....the Constitution prohibits the state from being involved in religion. It does not prohibit the state from involvement in teaching values. Perhaps you are one of those who believe that only those who are religious zealots have values....?
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wrong.... the government has no moral authority at all...if it did, I could tell us what to eat drink and run our very lifes....nothing in any constitution givers government that authority
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
I didn't say they are teaching the act........they are teaching it is sociality acceptable in our society and government has no authority to do that.

you and the people who believe as you do ,to not own the public school system, to run it according to your dictates.

people as yourself, hate the idea of force when it is used on you, however love to use it on other people.
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Why do you believe that it is it not ok for schools to teach that blacks should be treated the same as whites just because some bigot finds that teaching "morally reprehensible" since their "moral values" are that whites are superior to blacks?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

disneydude said:
If you belong to a church that teaches hatred, bigotry, discrimination ....then your religion is teaching you all the wrong values...certainly not true Christian
values.
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sorry this is not about me.......its about freedom.

something you do not believe in when it gets in your way.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
Your faith is not being violated....no one is teaching homosexuality. Your kids are just as likely (if not more) to be exposed to adulterers, people living in sin, etc as they are gays and THOSE things are not being taught either. How are you preventing your kids/grandkids from being turned into adulterers or people who live with others without the sanctity of marriage? Or promiscuous teachers? Are they teaching your kids to sleep around?

You cannot pick and choose in the public school system. If you dont like it, send your kids somewhere else. No one forces you to use the public school system.
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if the school teaches it is society acceptable in the class room it is...because government has not moral authority at all.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
wrong.... the government has no moral authority at all...if it did, I could tell us what to eat drink and run our very lifes....nothing in any constitution givers government that authority
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You are starting from a flawed premise. The correct analysis would be "nothing in the Constitution prohibits the government from teaching values"....the Constitution is very clear about Government being involved in Religion. It really is that simple if you read and understand the Constitution.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
if the school teaches it is society acceptable in the class room it is...because government has not moral authority at all.
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They dont teach that. Anymore than they teach that heterosexuality is socially acceptable. Do they do that? If so, how? Because THAT would be teaching morality as well.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
wrong.... the government has no moral authority at all...if it did, I could tell us what to eat drink and run our very lifes....nothing in any constitution givers government that authority
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LOL, what's moral about what we eat and drink? How about what we wear?

Are you sure you know what 'morality' is? Or applies to?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
I pay taxes that go to schools and have no kids...what is your point?
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that by paying taxes everyone has a voice in how the school will be run,...however that running cannot violate anyone rights.

Utah passed a law banning gay marriage....its unconstitutional to do that.

in the sense government cannot pass laws or policies, which promote things which are against ones religious right while making them pay for it,

do you believe schools could teach Jesus was a drunk jew who was crazy, and though he was the son of god...how long to you think that would last?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
LOL, what's moral about what we eat and drink? How about what we wear?

Are you sure you know what 'morality' is? Or applies to?
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because if government had moral authority over you they could dictate your life, how much you eat, you weight. your health, what you drink.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
They dont teach that. Anymore than they teach that heterosexuality is socially acceptable. Do they do that? If so, how? Because THAT would be teaching morality as well.
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so tell me why have their been court cases, of people who object to what the school is doing concerning homosexuality?

why has a MASS judge ordered that kids will learn, about homosexuality past, and present.



every time I argue this situation I get the same answer don't like it leave, or coarse then the shoe is on the other foot, its different.

history.... back in the 1950's the public school system taught homosexuality was wrong.......that's unconstitutional, because the government is using the gay peoples tax money against them.

and it works the other way around.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
so tell me why have their been court cases, of people who object to what the school is doing concerning homosexuality?

why has a MASS judge ordered that kids will learn, about homosexuality past, and present.



every time I argue this situation I get the same answer don't like it leave, or coarse then the shoe is on the other foot, its different.

history.... back in the 1950's the public school system taught homosexuality was wrong.......that's unconstitutional, because the government is using the gay peoples tax money against them.

and it works the other way around.
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Why are you against kids learning history? You want them only to be taught certain parts of history and censor the rest? Sounds like you only want kids taught white ango saxon history. Sorry....but there are a lot of other parts of history that have a bearing on this country, including black history, civil rights etc.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Navy Pride said:
The left is constantly trying to brainwash our children. They tried it with my son and now my grand children.........It did not work with any of them.
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I think what you meant to say is the left tried to educate your children, however your propaganda was successful in brainwashing them. That would be a lot more accurate.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
that by paying taxes everyone has a voice in how the school will be run,...however that running cannot violate anyone rights.


do you believe schools could teach Jesus was a drunk jew who was crazy, and though he was the son of god...how long to you think that would last?
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Paying taxes doesnt mean you can force the govt to discriminate...in schools or anywhere else.

And PUBLIC schools should not teach ANYTHING about Jesus...unless it is in a religion or philosophy class...and since when do schools teach lies? Are you saying gays are lying to students?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
so tell me why have their been court cases, of people who object to what the school is doing concerning homosexuality?

why has a MASS judge ordered that kids will learn, about homosexuality past, and present.



every time I argue this situation I get the same answer don't like it leave, or coarse then the shoe is on the other foot, its different.

history.... back in the 1950's the public school system taught homosexuality was wrong.......that's unconstitutional, because the government is using the gay peoples tax money against them.

and it works the other way around.
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I dont know anything about what Mass is teaching. But if it is 'factual,' then I dont see how there can be any objection? I dont see the need, not when there are many more important subjects IMO but it may go to my point about 'inclusion' and providing an accepting, positive, safe learning environment for ALL children.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
well this shows your don't understand what I am talking about. I have not wanted schools to teach religious valves, ...but I don't want schools teaching values, of those who happen to be seating in seats of power either.

people have rights, and they should not be violated, because you or I or politcans think doing something is a good idea.
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You are right. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Your rights are not violated by what is taught in our public schools. They do teach tolerance, but I don't know why you don't like that.

So I have no idea why you are complaining.

As far as I can tell, you want YOUR religious value of "gays are yucky" to be taught in the schools. That's not going to happen. But it doesn't ruin your kids' education if they don't hear that.

So what IS your point? You don't have the right to insist kids be taught falsehoods in public school because that's what your religion preaches.
 
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