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Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Why do you believe that the history of slavery and discrimination in this country should not be taught in public schools, just because it might offend a few bigots?

i am not suggesting, that history of slavery and discrimination not be taught, i think they should...however no law can violate the rights of citizens, becuase the majority is for something........ie .....Utah marriage ban.

the reason for my position....[freedom] as a citizen i have freedom to like and dislike other people and not deal with them, its called [right of association].

the 14th amendment to our constitution is to protect people from discrimination by governments only, becuase governments are there to secure rights, and the interest of the people.....a business is not here to secure rights and serve the interest of the people, a business serves it own interest.

the Utah ban on marriage was a morality vote of the people, to stop homosexuals from marrying......the government has no authority in the morality of the peoples personal life's.

in the same sense..... it has no moral authority to teach people things which they find repugnant to ones sense of morality.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

i am not suggesting, that history of slavery and discrimination not be taught, i think they should...however no law can violate the rights of citizens, becuase the majority is for something........ie .....Utah marriage ban.

the reason for my position....[freedom] as a citizen i have freedom to like and dislike other people and not deal with them, its called [right of association].

the 14th amendment to our constitution is to protect people from discrimination by governments only, becuase governments are there to secure rights, and the interest of the people.....a business is not here to secure rights and serve the interest of the people, a business serves it own interest.

the Utah ban on marriage was a morality vote of the people, to stop homosexuals from marrying......the government has no authority in the morality of the peoples personal life's.

in the same sense..... it has no moral authority to teach people things which they find repugnant to ones sense of morality.

Well...in essence that is exactly what you are saying. There are some bigots in this country that still believe that blacks are inferior to whites. Why should they be forced in a public school to learn about desegration and the civil rights movement...things that they find offensive or "repugnant to their sense of morality"?

BTW...there is a very big difference between "Freedom of Association" and the right to disassociation. Certainly you have the right to decide who you want to associate with. However, you do not have a right to disassociate by discriminating against people in the workplace just because you find them "icky".
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

i am not suggesting, that history of slavery and discrimination not be taught, i think they should...however no law can violate the rights of citizens, becuase the majority is for something........ie .....Utah marriage ban.

the reason for my position....[freedom] as a citizen i have freedom to like and dislike other people and not deal with them, its called [right of association].

the 14th amendment to our constitution is to protect people from discrimination by governments only, becuase governments are there to secure rights, and the interest of the people.....a business is not here to secure rights and serve the interest of the people, a business serves it own interest.

the Utah ban on marriage was a morality vote of the people, to stop homosexuals from marrying......the government has no authority in the morality of the peoples personal life's.

in the same sense..... it has no moral authority to teach people things which they find repugnant to ones sense of morality.

You can dislike them all you want. But the govt...including in a public school system...cant discriminate against them. You stress freedom....and they have THE SAME freedoms you do, or should. How can that be if you decide what marriages and careers they have?

Esp. where there is no cause or harm shown. Gays cannot turn other people gay, it's not contagious, and even if they promoted it (which I would be against), it's pointless because again....you cant turn people gay.

No one is 'teaching' homosexuality any more than they are teaching 'heterosexuality.' Where do they do that?

And in Utah....how does gay marriage affect the 'morality' of other Utah marriages? Does it make those marriages immoral? If so, how?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

I find the whole drama over 'teaching homosexuality' in schools to soon become a historical footnote.

Schools do not 'teach homosexuality.' They teach 'inclusion' so that all in schools have a safe, positive place conducive to learning (supposedly).

In days past, people also moralized over bastards and divorcees. Those children, and children of divorce, were 'excluded' based on other people's judgments. No one ever *taught* that being a single mother was good or that divorce was good....but condemnation is only harmful.Today, we accept the children of single mothers and divorced homes. What is the point in excluding them? That is only harmful.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

What a great Christmas Present for freedom loving Americans and those who believe in Liberty and Justice for all.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

This case NEEDS to go to the Supreme Court and there NEEDS to be a finding, one way or the other, once and for all.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Under that premise the court erred in the Loving decision.

However the 14th Amendment does grant the power to the federal government to require that no States deny citizens of a State the privileges & immunities, Due Process, and Equal Protections of the laws of that State.


>>>>

The Loving decision is not part of the Constitution. The 14th amendment doesn't address that at all, it is about protecting rights of former slaves. Nothing about marriage or changing the definition of marriage at all.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

The Loving decision is not part of the Constitution. The 14th amendment doesn't address that at all, it is about protecting rights of former slaves. Nothing about marriage or changing the definition of marriage at all.

LOL....have you read the Loving decision? If you had....you probably would not have written what you just did.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Well...in essence that is exactly what you are saying. There are some bigots in this country that still believe that blacks are inferior to whites. Why should they be forced in a public school to learn about desegration and the civil rights movement...things that they find offensive or "repugnant to their sense of morality"?

BTW...there is a very big difference between "Freedom of Association" and the right to disassociation. Certainly you have the right to decide who you want to associate with. However, you do not have a right to disassociate by discriminating against people in the workplace just because you find them "icky".

thinking that a black person is not equal, and trying to exercise that on government property is not a right.....I have a right to exercise it on my own property.

because when I exercise discrimination,..i am not committing a crime, because I am not violating anyone's rights.....and its not a health or safety issue.


we have a separation of church and state, which prohibits the government from prevents the government from any activity concerning religion, meaning they cannot promote, or takes actions detractions from religion,...meaning you can make laws or polices which forces people...to do things or accept thing things, teaches things, against their religious beliefs...because the government is compelling them to go to school....if that person is not committing a crime of something which endangers health or safety.


why is it people say, you cant teach your religion to me....

but then say I can teach you my moral beliefs against your religious beliefs.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

LOL....have you read the Loving decision? If you had....you probably would not have written what you just did.

"LOL", really? So you think that a court case is somehow written into the Constitution? That's just sad.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

"LOL", really? So you think that a court case is somehow written into the Constitution? That's just sad.

No. Do you have no understanding of how caselaw works? You might want to educate yourself on the judicial process and then come back to the discussion.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

You can dislike them all you want. But the govt...including in a public school system...cant discriminate against them. You stress freedom....and they have THE SAME freedoms you do, or should. How can that be if you decide what marriages and careers they have??


you are correct the public school is part of government it cannot discriminate against people, that is a rights violation, but its also a rights violation if you force people to do things against their religious beliefs, and remember these people are compelled to go to school.

E
sp. where there is no cause or harm shown. Gays cannot turn other people gay, it's not contagious, and even if they promoted it (which I would be against), it's pointless because again....you cant turn people gay. ?

I agree, they are not turning people gay, however they are trying to influence people, to a way of thinking.... the school system is not there to indorse a life of way, and tell people through force who find a certain way of life repugnant...its ok.


And in Utah....how does gay marriage affect the 'morality' of other Utah marriages? Does it make those marriages immoral? If so, how?

the Utah vote was a referendum, of people who just don't want gay marriage.....well that does not give them any moral authority to use movement to stop gay marriages.

and people have no moral authority to have government endorse a way of life.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

.because the government is compelling them to go to school....

.

You can choose a religious school or teach your kids at home, if you want to teach bigotry.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

you are correct the public school is part of government it cannot discriminate against people, that is a rights violation, but its also a rights violation if you force people to do things against their religious beliefs, and remember these people are compelled to go to school.

E

I agree, they are not turning people gay, however they are trying to influence people, to a way of thinking.... the school system is not there to indorse a life of way, and tell people through force who find a certain way of life repugnant...its ok.




the Utah vote was a referendum, of people who just don't want gay marriage.....well that does not give them any moral authority to use movement to stop gay marriages.

and people have no moral authority to have government endorse a way of life.

Why are you against schools teaching about the civil rights movement? Just because it offends the "moral values" of some bigots?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Why are you against schools teaching about the civil rights movement? Just because it offends the "moral values" of some bigots?

civil rights?

government cannot discriminate....according to constitutional law......how did you and others determine it , to mean it applies to people/business, .. the constitution in no way limits people or business.

if I try to teach you a religious set of moral valves ...are you going to be offended?.............yes you are., and claim there is a separation of church and state.

why do you think you can teach a set of values which are not religious based, to me which is offensive to my religious values, and violate that separation of church and state.

government can not make any laws, which interfere with a person religious beliefs.....it goes both way.

why is it people who are not religious believe somehow they have some authority over other people.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

civil rights?

government cannot discriminate....according to constitutional law......how did you and others determine it , to mean it applies to people/business, .. the constitution in no way limits people or business.

if I try to teach you a religious set of moral valves ...are you going to be offended?.............yes you are., and claim there is a separation of church and state.

why do you think you can teach a set of values which are not religious based, to me which is offensive to my religious values, and violate that separation of church and state.

government can not make any laws, which interfere with a person religious beliefs.....it goes both way.

why is it people who are not religious believe somehow they have some authority over other people.

Some people claim the universe is 4,000 years old because of their religious beliefs. Would you have us not teach kids the facts about how old the universe is?

School is for facts. If you want to teach that minorities, gays, women are somehow "lesser" in your religion - do that at home. The govt is not stopping you from teaching your kids anything you want at home.

But when they come to school, they learn the latest information that we have. That includes it's wrong to discriminate against people because they are minority, women or gay/lesbian. It includes that evolution happens. It includes the age of the universe as best as we know it (13.8 billion years).

You don't like it? Your option is to home school or to put your kids in a religious school, NOT to insist the public school system teach according to your religious beliefs.



After all, I assume you wouldn't like it if the schools taught kids according to Muslim beliefs, right? Or Greek/Roman god beliefs?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Some people claim the universe is 4,000 years old because of their religious beliefs. Would you have us not teach kids the facts about how old the universe is?

School is for facts. If you want to teach that minorities, gays, women are somehow "lesser" in your religion - do that at home. The govt is not stopping you from teaching your kids anything you want at home.

But when they come to school, they learn the latest information that we have. That includes it's wrong to discriminate against people because they are minority, women or gay/lesbian. It includes that evolution happens. It includes the age of the universe as best as we know it (13.8 billion years).

You don't like it? Your option is to home school or to put your kids in a religious school, NOT to insist the public school system teach according to your religious beliefs.



After all, I assume you wouldn't like it if the schools taught kids according to Muslim beliefs, right? Or Greek/Roman god beliefs?



well this shows your don't understand what I am talking about. I have not wanted schools to teach religious valves, ...but I don't want schools teaching values, of those who happen to be seating in seats of power either.

people have rights, and they should not be violated, because you or I or politcans think doing something is a good idea.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

really, the introduction of homosexuality into the public school system is a violation of a person religious freedom, and since people are mandated by law to go to school, it makes it unconstitutional.

discrimination laws, aimed at private business or individuals is also unconstitutional.

it is government who cannot discriminate......not individuals or business.

You can homeschool your kid or send them to private school if you do not like what's taught in a public school.

And as I wrote somewhere else, no one is 'teaching' homosexuality' anymore than they are teaching 'heterosexuality.' What lifestyle? Their lives are exactly the same in every way except who they have sex with. Even the same sex acts are performed by some straight couples. They go to PTA, soccer games, put out the trash, have dinner together, help with homework, go on vacation, take their cars in for maintenance, shovel snow...how is their lifestyle different?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

thinking that a black person is not equal, and trying to exercise that on government property is not a right.....I have a right to exercise it on my own property.

because when I exercise discrimination,..i am not committing a crime, because I am not violating anyone's rights.....and its not a health or safety issue.


we have a separation of church and state, which prohibits the government from prevents the government from any activity concerning religion, meaning they cannot promote, or takes actions detractions from religion,...meaning you can make laws or polices which forces people...to do things or accept thing things, teaches things, against their religious beliefs...because the government is compelling them to go to school....if that person is not committing a crime of something which endangers health or safety.

why is it people say, you cant teach your religion to me....

but then say I can teach you my moral beliefs against your religious beliefs.

You are right...but no one is teaching 'homosexuality.'

And that's also why you cant teach creationism in science classes. I'm glad at least that is clear, so it's just that you dont like being around gays. Then you have the choice not to be or have your kids in a school with gay teachers....homeschool them or send them to private school.

Or, teach your children what YOU BELIEVE at home, just like everyone else. How do you think being taught by a gay teacher will harm them? Again, it's not 'taught' and it's not contagious.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

this is no answer....all your saying is I want things my way.

You already admitted that the govt cant discriminate against them by not allowing them to teach. So if you dont want your kids taught by gays, those are your options.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

civil rights?

government cannot discriminate....according to constitutional law......how did you and others determine it , to mean it applies to people/business, .. the constitution in no way limits people or business.

if I try to teach you a religious set of moral valves ...are you going to be offended?.............yes you are., and claim there is a separation of church and state.

why do you think you can teach a set of values which are not religious based, to me which is offensive to my religious values, and violate that separation of church and state.

government can not make any laws, which interfere with a person religious beliefs.....it goes both way.

why is it people who are not religious believe somehow they have some authority over other people.


Because the Constitution requires a separation of church/state, not state and community values. It really is that simple.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

You are right...but no one is teaching 'homosexuality.'

And that's also why you cant teach creationism in science classes. I'm glad at least that is clear, so it's just that you dont like being around gays. Then you have the choice not to be or have your kids in a school with gay teachers....homeschool them or send them to private school.

Or, teach your children what YOU BELIEVE at home, just like everyone else. How do you think being taught by a gay teacher will harm them? Again, it's not 'taught' and it's not contagious.

The left is constantly trying to brainwash our children. They tried it with my son and now my grand children.........It did not work with any of them.
 
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Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Because the Constitution requires a separation of church/state, not state and community values. It really is that simple.

are you saying the bill of right applies only to states.....

because under the original idea of the bill of rights, you would be correct..... however after the civil war, the USSC ruled the bill of rights now applies to the states.

so its not that simple.
 
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Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

You can homeschool your kid or send them to private school if you do not like what's taught in a public school.

And as I wrote somewhere else, no one is 'teaching' homosexuality' anymore than they are teaching 'heterosexuality.' What lifestyle? Their lives are exactly the same in every way except who they have sex with. Even the same sex acts are performed by some straight couples. They go to PTA, soccer games, put out the trash, have dinner together, help with homework, go on vacation, take their cars in for maintenance, shovel snow...how is their lifestyle different?

really...then give those people who pay for schools thru their taxes....... their money back then.
 
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