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Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

Re: Gay Marriage Ban Struck in Utah by Federal Judge

How is marriage a legal nightmare? Marriage and divorce would go through the same trials and tribulations that any marriage would go through. I think the people who oppose marriage for gay people overthink the whole process and fail to realize that homosexuals are just as human and flawed as as every heterosexual, not more so.

(I say marriage and not "gay marriage" because gay people do not gay park, gay shop, gay read, gay drive, gay anything.)
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Mr.Nick said:
I think gays - or even most people of any party (or none at all) actually believe the "governments" recognition of marriage has to do with approval of the concept, when in reality this issue is much larger than that and less social than that...

Someone could marry a chimpanzee movie star and you would figure out how quick its less about recognition of who you marry but more about money, er better yet how much the chimp owes the government.

I suppose those who don't pay taxes will find that as "racist" (in their vocab) while the married couples (who pay taxes) will shoot coffee all over their screens...

It doesn't even matter. Few will ever understand.
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I don't understand why you think that gay people want the government and entire populace to nod their heads in approval of their relationships. Perhaps gay people just want to share their love and commitment with their loved ones and the people that support them? Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they don't think about building and sharing a life with someone. I believe we want to get married for the same reasons heterosexuals want to get married and those reasons vary and differ from each couple.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lonely Eternity said:
I don't understand why you think that gay people want the government and entire populace to nod their heads in approval of their relationships. Perhaps gay people just want to share their love and commitment with their loved ones and the people that support them? Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they don't think about building and sharing a life with someone. I believe we want to get married for the same reasons heterosexuals want to get married and those reasons vary and differ from each couple.
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Law doesn't care what people think... Law has no emotion.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Anthony60 said:
The States are not violating the Constitution, it's federal government that is violating the Constitution, that is the point. Do you seriously advocate the federal government violating the Constitution?




That is such a poor analogy. The right to bear arms is specifically protected in the Constitution, marriage is not addressed in any way whatsoever.
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Equal protection under the law, dude. The government isn't violating the constitution by overturning an unconstitutional law.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lursa said:
The federal govt...entrusted to upholding the Constitution.
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Really, the federal government? Isn't that the same as having the inmates guard the prison?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lonely Eternity said:
You have heard of the term "Checks and Balances" right? It is well within the judge's power and it is kinda part of his job description to decide that which is and is not constitutional.
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Where is the part of the Constitution that gives the court that power? I'll cut to the chase, it's not in there. But, that's not even the issue. The issue is that there is no federal authority to decide how a State deals with marriage, that is a power that rests with the States, not the federal government.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Anthony60 said:
Where is the part of the Constitution that gives the court that power? I'll cut to the chase, it's not in there. But, that's not even the issue. The issue is that there is no federal authority to decide how a State deals with marriage, that is a power that rests with the States, not the federal government.
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Equal protection under the law.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Deuce said:
Equal protection under the law.
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You are kidding, right? Don't tell me that is the best argument you can come up with to try and give the courts that power. What about Congress, or the executive branch? How does that little clause you pasted specifically give the the courts the power to judge the Constitution? Especially the lower courts, which are created by Congress?

As I said before, it's not in there. Not my opinion, just a fact.
Also, as I said before, it's beside the point.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Anthony60 said:
You are kidding, right? Don't tell me that is the best argument you can come up with to try and give the courts that power. What about Congress, or the executive branch? How does that little clause you pasted specifically give the the courts the power to judge the Constitution? Especially the lower courts, which are created by Congress?

As I said before, it's not in there. Not my opinion, just a fact.
Also, as I said before, it's beside the point.
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So you want to have a constitution but have no checks and balances in place to enforce it. Interesting.

If the ACA had been overturned as unconstitutional, would you have been whining then?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Mr.Nick said:
If these people want equality under the (tax) law I have no idea why they're getting married.... Oh not only that but what if they get divorced???

Man... Where to begin with that one from a legal perspective.....

Gay marriage is a legal nightmare first off..... Let the lawyers deal with this fiasco.
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Of course marriage can be exploited...people do it for green cards all the time. Or to gain wealth from the other party. Or status.

Domestic partnerships could be exploited as well I guess, so it's not necessarly about 'marriage' or even 'civil unions' which would purport to have exactly the same monetary and legal benefits.

Back in the 90s, Seattle was one of the first cities to recognize domestic partnerships in an effort to give gay partners benefits. However because of the same anti-discrimination laws and considerations, they couldnt make them *just for gays.* Anyone living together (there were a few criteria) was eligible for the benefits. My boyfriend (of many years) and I lived together and he had better benefits thru the city so we signed me up for those benefits, perfectly legally.

"Marriage" is the issue...the term. So many people object to SSM that agree with civil unions. Marriage really does mean something to some people....gay or straight (not me esp.)
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Anthony60 said:
Really, the federal government? Isn't that the same as having the inmates guard the prison?
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I answered your question. Do you have anything further that's topical?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Anthony60 said:
Where is the part of the Constitution that gives the court that power? I'll cut to the chase, it's not in there. But, that's not even the issue. The issue is that there is no federal authority to decide how a State deals with marriage, that is a power that rests with the States, not the federal government.
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Tell that to the southern states on their race issues. Sorry, this has been explained to you...it is about discrimination and that supersedes any state decisions on how it treats a protected class. Sexual orientation is a protected class in many states and the fed govt is probably headed that way. As others have said, it's also a gender based issue and every state includes gender in it's protected classes.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Anthony60 said:
Where is the part of the Constitution that gives the court that power? I'll cut to the chase, it's not in there. But, that's not even the issue. The issue is that there is no federal authority to decide how a State deals with marriage, that is a power that rests with the States, not the federal government.
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Under that premise the court erred in the Loving decision.

However the 14th Amendment does grant the power to the federal government to require that no States deny citizens of a State the privileges & immunities, Due Process, and Equal Protections of the laws of that State.


>>>>
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

More good news....the bigots who are fighting against marriage equality lost another round...the appellate court has denied their request to grant a stay. Gay marriages continue to move forward in Utah. Another great day for freedom and equality.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

WorldWatcher said:
Under that premise the court erred in the Loving decision.

However the 14th Amendment does grant the power to the federal government to require that no States deny citizens of a State the privileges & immunities, Due Process, and Equal Protections of the laws of that State.


>>>>
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Anthony doesn't appear to understand that part.....
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Why the hell does anyone give a **** who wants to marry who? Two friends of mine have been together 30 years. Way longer that my three combined marriages. They finally tied the knot a few weeks ago and I say more power to em' The whole issue is retarded.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

disneydude said:
More good news....the bigots who are fighting against marriage equality lost another round...the appellate court has denied their request to grant a stay. Gay marriages continue to move forward in Utah. Another great day for freedom and equality.
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while i agree with you to a point government cannot deny people marriage..., i ALSO dont find it to be freedom, when [ some ] gay zealots try to force other to people to accept their way of life....ie.... discrimination laws placed of private business, and public school policies.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
while i agree with you to a point government cannot deny people marriage..., i ALSO dont find it to be freedom, when [ some ] gay zealots try to force other to people to accept their way of life....ie.... discrimination laws placed of private business, and public school policies.
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Gay are not forcing anyone to accept their way of life any more than blacks or women or any other minority for that matter "forces people to accept their way of life". The reality is, Bigots cannot create a world, at least here in the United States, where they are free to practice their bigotry and discrimination outside their front doors. Sorry...but that just part of enjoying the freedoms and opportunities that this great country offers.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

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I love this picture. Hundreds of couples lining up in Utah to exercise their right to marry the person whom they love.

The reality is...the anti-marriage equality bigots are threatened by this because they want to continue to perpetuate their propoganda that gay people are just sex-crazed maniacs that engage in all night orgies. They want to sell an image to America that runs counter to the truth...and that is, gay men and women are just like straight men and women....we all have a desire to marry and cherish the person that we love.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

disneydude said:
Gay are not forcing anyone to accept their way of life any more than blacks or women or any other minority for that matter "forces people to accept their way of life". The reality is, Bigots cannot create a world, at least here in the United States, where they are free to practice their bigotry and discrimination outside their front doors. Sorry...but that just part of enjoying the freedoms and opportunities that this great country offers.
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really, the introduction of homosexuality into the public school system is a violation of a person religious freedom, and since people are mandated by law to go to school, it makes it unconstitutional.

discrimination laws, aimed at private business or individuals is also unconstitutional.

it is government who cannot discriminate......not individuals or business.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
really, the introduction of homosexuality into the public school system is a violation of a person religious freedom, and since people are mandated by law to go to school, it makes it unconstitutional.

discrimination laws, aimed at private business or individuals is also unconstitutional.

it is government who cannot discriminate......not individuals or business.
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Are you serious? Homosexuals have been in the public school system for ages. Perhaps you are referring to anti-bigotry teachings? I don't know of any overtly "homosexual" introduction that is occurring in the public school system. Were you also against the desegration of the school system and teaching about the history of slavery and discrimination? After-all...many people are still anti-black.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

disneydude said:
Are you serious? Homosexuals have been in the public school system for ages. Perhaps you are referring to anti-bigotry teachings? I don't know of any overtly "homosexual" introduction that is occurring in the public school system. Were you also against the desegration of the school system and teaching about the history of slavery and discrimination? After-all...many people are still anti-black.
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our founding principles are ........life liberty and the pursuit of happiness....happiness translates in property.

twice in the constitution , the 5th and 14th amendments states their will be no violatation of............ life liberty and property.

when government denies people marriage it is violating.........liberty, becuase government it using its force to stop people from preforming an action.

when government uses it power to force people to preform an action [who have committed no crime, or a health and safety issue] it is also violating ....liberty.

if government compels people to go to school and teaches them things which are repugnant to their religious beliefs........that is a violation of .............liberty.

when government uses it power to force a business to serve another citizen...that is a violation of liberty.....[right of association].....and a violation of right to property.

people always want to use law to benefit their cause, ...yet they wish to reject the law, when it does not suit their purposes.
 
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Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ernst barkmann said:
our founding principles are ........life liberty and the pursuit of happiness....happiness translates in property.

twice in the constitution , the 5th and 14th amendments states their will be no violatation of............ life liberty and property.

when government denies people marriage it is violating.........liberty, becuase government it using its force to stop people from preforming an action.

when government uses it power to force people to preform an action [who have committed no crime, or a health and safety issue] it is also violating ....liberty.

if government compels people to go to school and teaches them things which are repugnant to their religious beliefs........that is a violation of .............liberty.

when government uses it power to force a business to serve another citizen...that is a violation of liberty.....[right of association].....and a violation of right to property.

people always want to use law to benefit their cause, ...yet they wish to reject the law, when it does not suit their purposes.
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Why do you believe that the history of slavery and discrimination in this country should not be taught in public schools, just because it might offend a few bigots?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

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What is it about the happiness here that the anti-marriage equality bigots find so threatening?
 
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