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Thread: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    It is discrimination and that is what all the judicial opinions that I've seen have been based on.

    It's not really up to you to decide how important this is to other people...how would you feel if you were not allowed to marry? As a matter of fact, I have seen marriage described exactly like that....'handing your life over to someone else.' It's that important....to many people their love being legally recognized in front of God and/family etc is the most important thing to them.

    And as has been discussed in this thread, the states' will does not over rule the Constitution and the majority may not vote on the rights of the minority.
    Ah, but's it's okay for other people to "inflict" their view that marriage needs to be changed to suit them on me? I can no more marry someone of the opposite sex than a gay person can, and gays are permitted to marry the opposite sex just as I can. Same rules for everyone.

    Civil unions are available for that, and I am all for them granting the same rights of marriage. So why must they trample on marriage specifically? Why don't they just get those rights with a civil union? Why should it be called the same thing, when there are such huge differences? Some bigotry/hatred of the Catholic Church perhaps?

    There's nothing in the Constitution that says the definition of marriage should be changed.
    And how hypocrital can you get? Obama blatantly violated the Constitution all over the place, and you are silent. But you now run for the protection of the Constitution when you think it will help you. Leave it alone if you are not willing to stand up for it all the time.
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Ah, but's it's okay for other people to "inflict" their view that marriage needs to be changed to suit them on me? I can no more marry someone of the opposite sex than a gay person can, and gays are permitted to marry the opposite sex just as I can. Same rules for everyone.
    The same logic was used for interracial marriage bans, and rejected. Nothing is being inflicted upon you. You don't have to marry a dude, you don't have to go to their wedding, you don't have to approve of their union. Quite frankly, nobody will care. You have the right to disapprove, and the right to express that disapproval. What you don't have is the right to restrict somebody else's rights based solely on your moral disapproval.

    Civil unions are available for that, and I am all for them granting the same rights of marriage. So why must they trample on marriage specifically? Why don't they just get those rights with a civil union? Why should it be called the same thing, when there are such huge differences? Some bigotry/hatred of the Catholic Church perhaps?
    Is it trampling on voting to expand voting rights to women and minorities?
    By the way, Civil unions aren't equal to marriage and never have been. Plus, America rejected that whole "separate but equal" thing a while back. You know why? "Separate but equal" is inherently unequal.

    There's nothing in the Constitution that says the definition of marriage should be changed.
    There's nothing in the Constitution that says you have the right to a definition of a word.

    And how hypocrital can you get? Obama blatantly violated the Constitution all over the place, and you are silent. But you now run for the protection of the Constitution when you think it will help you. Leave it alone if you are not willing to stand up for it all the time.
    Deflection.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Ah, but's it's okay for other people to "inflict" their view that marriage needs to be changed to suit them on me? I can no more marry someone of the opposite sex than a gay person can, and gays are permitted to marry the opposite sex just as I can. Same rules for everyone.

    Civil unions are available for that, and I am all for them granting the same rights of marriage. So why must they trample on marriage specifically? Why don't they just get those rights with a civil union? Why should it be called the same thing, when there are such huge differences? Some bigotry/hatred of the Catholic Church perhaps?

    There's nothing in the Constitution that says the definition of marriage should be changed.
    And how hypocrital can you get? Obama blatantly violated the Constitution all over the place, and you are silent. But you now run for the protection of the Constitution when you think it will help you. Leave it alone if you are not willing to stand up for it all the time.
    I asked how it affected you....you said nothing. Feel free to tell me now. How does it affect your marriage....existing or potential? How did birracial marriage harm anyone? You are not 'protected' from other people's 'views,' esp. those that do not infringe on any of your own rights.

    And separate but equal was knocked down by SCOTUS decades ago as unConstitutional, so civil unions would not be acceptable.

    THey are only trampling on marriage according to 'you' and your belief system. You are welcome to your belief system....it's still available for you to fulfill. If you ask the majority of Americans today, it's not likely you'd find the 'huge differences' you claim.

    And there's no 'definition' of marriage in the Constitution to change....it's just enumerated as a right, as others have stated (altho not I).
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So what you're telling me is that you think homosexuals can't marry someone of the opposite gender. Got it.

    The laws do discriminate against homosexuals - by making a gender-based classification. How is this so hard for you to understand? I asked you before to show me a single law or constitutional amendment that referenced sexuality instead of gender. You never did. Instead, you went to court decisions. Why? Is it because the laws and amendments look like this?



    One man and one woman. Exactly what I said. Nothing in there mentions sexual attraction. Get it now? Is this still something that eludes you?

    The method chosen to discriminate against homosexuals was a gender-based classification. The courts haven't contradicted what I've said. Because I agree with them. Homosexuals are being discriminated against. Through the use of a gender-based classification.

    You're confusing the offense and the tool used to perform it.
    It's not about what I say -- it's about what YOU say, and that the courts have nearly uniformly said the opposite.

    You've been given many, many examples of courts specifically refuting you. Repeating yourself over and over will not make it any less so.
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It's not about what I] say -- it's about what YOU say, and that the courts have nearly uniformly said the opposite.

    You've been given many, many examples of courts specifically refuting you. Repeating yourself over and over will not make it any less so.
    No, you're just failing to understand I actually agree with the courts. I completely agree that homosexuals have been discriminated against. The argument that got you into this tirade wasn't refuting that. Rather, it was explaining that the method used to discriminate against homosexuals was through the use of a gender-based classification, not through the use of a sexuality-based classification. I understand how you came to this point of confusion, and I'm sorry for not clarifying it sooner. But I've done that now, there's nothing more I can do to help with your obsession over what you perceive my argument to be.

    The only way to prove me wrong is to provide a state that cites sexuality in its law or constitutional amendment.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Ah, but's it's okay for other people to "inflict" their view that marriage needs to be changed to suit them on me? I can no more marry someone of the opposite sex than a gay person can, and gays are permitted to marry the opposite sex just as I can. Same rules for everyone.
    Do you want to marry someone of the opposite sex though? If no, then no, the rules aren't the same. The rules being the same would be people allowed to marry a partner of their choice as long as that preference is 1) consensual under the law and 2) not harmful to either party. This immediately discards any arguments you may have for marriage between animals and people or people and objects or people and children or insert odd marriages here.
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The same logic was used for interracial marriage bans, and rejected. Nothing is being inflicted upon you. You don't have to marry a dude, you don't have to go to their wedding, you don't have to approve of their union. Quite frankly, nobody will care. You have the right to disapprove, and the right to express that disapproval. What you don't have is the right to restrict somebody else's rights based solely on your moral disapproval.


    Is it trampling on voting to expand voting rights to women and minorities?
    By the way, Civil unions aren't equal to marriage and never have been. Plus, America rejected that whole "separate but equal" thing a while back. You know why? "Separate but equal" is inherently unequal.
    What kind of comparison are you trying to make with voting rights? I don't see how that supports your position at all. All people could not vote. All people can get married. Gays want to change marriage to include same sex. So no, it is not trampling on voting to allow all people to vote.

    Do you favor those that pay more taxes getting more votes? That would be changing voting rights.
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    What kind of comparison are you trying to make with voting rights? I don't see how that supports your position at all. All people could not vote. All people can get married. Gays want to change marriage to include same sex. So no, it is not trampling on voting to allow all people to vote.
    So why is it "trampling" on marriage if other people are allowed to marry? I mean, serious question here: if two dudes get married, how does it affect your life? Can you articulate any kind of harm whatsoever? If not, what business is it of yours who marries who?

    Do you favor those that pay more taxes getting more votes? That would be changing voting rights.
    Um, no? Our constitution precludes that idiocy.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, you're just failing to understand I actually agree with the courts.
    No, you don't, because the courts specifically reject the gender-based discrimination argument, and flat out say that all these state laws specifically prohibit homosexuals from marrying. Not that the "effect" of gender discrimination is discrimination against homsexuals, but that the marriage laws themselves discriminate against homosexuals, directly.

    That is the opposite of what you say. That isn't going to change no matter how many times you repeat yourself.
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I asked how it affected you....you said nothing. Feel free to tell me now. How does it affect your marriage....existing or potential? How did birracial marriage harm anyone? You are not 'protected' from other people's 'views,' esp. those that do not infringe on any of your own rights.

    And separate but equal was knocked down by SCOTUS decades ago as unConstitutional, so civil unions would not be acceptable.

    THey are only trampling on marriage according to 'you' and your belief system. You are welcome to your belief system....it's still available for you to fulfill. If you ask the majority of Americans today, it's not likely you'd find the 'huge differences' you claim.

    And there's no 'definition' of marriage in the Constitution to change....it's just enumerated as a right, as others have stated (altho not I).
    Oh, so now you care how it affects me, do you? I though it didn't matter what I thought.
    Seperate but equal? Are you kidding me? I didn't know same sex couples went to seperate schools, water fountains, bathrooms, etc... LOL!
    Really, it's an enumerated right?
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
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