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Thread: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    If you don't like it then don't express bigoted opinions... pretty simple.
    I can't help your inability to understand the statement.


    Rights are being denied. I assume that you think that the Plessy (1896) Decision was a good one?
    So, are you stating that a judicial decision could be wrong??? Like this one.

    No. It is accurate and intelligent to label a bigot as a bigot.
    I guess I just have to be blunt instead of being nice. It is stupid when you get it wrong.
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    In essence, until a SCOTUS ruling is overturned by another ruling or change to a law it addressed or change to the Constitution itself, the ruling is part of the Constitution or at least how the Constitution is interpreted. It is called precedent, and it is a major component of what every student of law learns about during their first years. There is no actual written law that says that police officers cannot shoot an unarmed (not considered dangerous) suspect while he is fleeing. But Tennessee v Garner decision says this and all law enforcement officers are bound by this decision.
    Not really part of the Constitution though, is it? The decisions are supposed to be based on the Constitution. When a judge makes a decision like that, it is treated as a law, not a Constitutional amendment. If it was considered part of the Constitution, even the SCOTUS would not be able to overturn it. I don't think lower courts have that power.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Direct vote is the issue being put up for a vote. This has happened 4 times.

    California?
    If it was voted on in Cali today, it would end up same sex marriage legal here, the same thing that happened with the court decision. The numbers were simply too close in the 2008 vote for Prop 8 when you compare public sentiment from then to now here in Cali to say anything different. Old people died, young people have reached voting age, voters have moved in and out, and opinions have changed steadily to legalizing same sex marriage across the country.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Not really part of the Constitution though, is it? The decisions are supposed to be based on the Constitution. When a judge makes a decision like that, it is treated as a law, not a Constitutional amendment. If it was considered part of the Constitution, even the SCOTUS would not be able to overturn it. I don't think lower courts have that power.
    Equal Protection Clause of the US Constitution. It really isn't that hard to figure out unless you simply don't like that Clause or don't approve of more freedom for everyone and would rather use the Constitution to restrict rights, particularly individual rights, rather than prevent the government from taking away/denying freedoms, even by the votes of the majority.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    If it was voted on in Cali today, it would end up same sex marriage legal here, the same thing that happened with the court decision. The numbers were simply too close in the 2008 vote for Prop 8 when you compare public sentiment from then to now here in Cali to say anything different. Old people died, young people have reached voting age, voters have moved in and out, and opinions have changed steadily to legalizing same sex marriage across the country.
    You hope, you mean.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    You hope, you mean.
    No hope needed. I see the numbers. I know how voting and trends work. The trend is for legalizing same sex marriage. Support for same sex marriage being legal is only going up and at a recognizable amount. I'm betting that if given time a person could in fact find a workable algorithm for the increase in support for same sex marriage that would easily show the likelihood of voting results on this issue given most known factors for each state. The curves for support and rejection of same sex marriage are pretty easy to see. The trends are almost linear with a crossing that occurred a few years back, with support coming up as being over rejection.

    The simple truth is that court decisions take less time, especially in states that still have a majority rejecting ssm, than the bureaucracy and trending time does when it comes to gaining support for a vote to have it and putting it on the ballot. It doesn't change the fact that restrictions on marriage based on sex/gender are still unconstitutional because they cannot be shown to further any state interest, let alone an important one.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No hope needed. I see the numbers. I know how voting and trends work. The trend is for legalizing same sex marriage. Support for same sex marriage being legal is only going up and at a recognizable amount. I'm betting that if given time a person could in fact find a workable algorithm for the increase in support for same sex marriage that would easily show the likelihood of voting results on this issue given most known factors for each state. The curves for support and rejection of same sex marriage are pretty easy to see. The trends are almost linear with a crossing that occurred a few years back, with support coming up as being over rejection.

    The simple truth is that court decisions take less time, especially in states that still have a majority rejecting ssm, than the bureaucracy and trending time does when it comes to gaining support for a vote to have it and putting it on the ballot. It doesn't change the fact that restrictions on marriage based on sex/gender are still unconstitutional because they cannot be shown to further any state interest, let alone an important one.
    The only numbers there are is the vote against gay marriage.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    The only numbers there are is the vote against gay marriage.
    No, in the end, all that matters is the result, same sex marriage being legal. It doesn't matter how it happens when it comes about because legally, it is still the same effect, same sex couples can get married. It would only be a matter of time before votes went the same way.

    Or are you going to suggest that we should have a vote on interracial marriage in the South, to see if their votes would now be different than those cast before a court ruling changed those laws?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, in the end, all that matters is the result, same sex marriage being legal. It doesn't matter how it happens when it comes about because legally, it is still the same effect, same sex couples can get married. It would only be a matter of time before votes went the same way.

    Or are you going to suggest that we should have a vote on interracial marriage in the South, to see if their votes would now be different than those cast before a court ruling changed those laws?
    Cool, but the majority voted against it in California.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Cool, but the majority voted against it in California.
    A small majority in 2008. If you cannot understand that public opinion and therefore voting results change with time, particularly with issues such as this, then you are simply ignoring facts.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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