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Thread: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Utah was one of the States in 2004 to ban both Same-sex Civil Marriage and Civil Unions in their State Constitution.

    Kitchen v. Herbert (the recent Utah case) was in Federal Court not State court so a new ballot wouldn't mean anything. Unless it was a ballot to repeal 2004's Amendment 3 and make SSCM legal, in which case the District Court ruling in Kitchen would be moot.


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    Just as an aside...WA St was the first state to recognize SSM *by popular vote.*
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Just as an aside...WA St was the first state to recognize SSM *by popular vote.*
    Popular vote gay marriage is very unpopular as of yet.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Popular vote gay marriage is very unpopular as of yet.
    "As if yet" means currently. Most popular votes on Same-sex Civil Marriage occurred about a decade ago.

    In 2012 there were four states with ballots on Same-sex Civil Marriage during general elections (Maine, Washington, Maryland, and Minnesota - IIRC) and the issue was won in each state.

    In addition it may very well be placed before the voters of Ohio in 2014 as it appears the group seeking to reversion the discriminatory language in the Ohio Constitution says they already have the signatures for a ballot initiative. (Will Ohio reverse course on same-sex marriage in 2014? | WVXU)

    BTW there statement in the article that says "And, Burress said, there is no other state in the nation where voters, once they have approved a gay marriage ban, have undone it at the polls.". Burress is wrong. Maine banned Same-sex Civil Marriage in 2009 at the polls and repealed that ban in 2012.



    >>>>

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    "As if yet" means currently. Most popular votes on Same-sex Civil Marriage occurred about a decade ago.

    In 2012 there were four states with ballots on Same-sex Civil Marriage during general elections (Maine, Washington, Maryland, and Minnesota - IIRC) and the issue was won in each state.

    In addition it may very well be placed before the voters of Ohio in 2014 as it appears the group seeking to reversion the discriminatory language in the Ohio Constitution says they already have the signatures for a ballot initiative.

    BTW there statement in the article that says "And, Burress said, there is no other state in the nation where voters, once they have approved a gay marriage ban, have undone it at the polls.". Burress is wrong. Maine banned Same-sex Civil Marriage in 2009 at the polls and repealed that ban in 2012.
    4 out of about 40 tries, right?

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    4 out of about 40 tries, right?

    4 out of 4 in general elections a decade after the initial surge.

    Your premise is like saying that in Alabamian's now support a constitutional ban on interracial marriage because in the past they voted to amend their constitution to ban such things.

    To think that attitudes don't change over time is a failure of logic.


    >>>>

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    4 out of 4 in general elections a decade after the initial surge.
    Those were the first four in a decade?

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Those were the first four in a decade?

    You'd have to go do some homework to break it down, you could probably Google "Same sex marriage in _____________ wiki" and look up each individual state.

    The bulk of the 33 states passed their Amendments in 2000 & 2004, a couple in 2006 (IIRC). A decade ago margins of victory were 23%-76%. By 2008 (California Prop 8) and 2009 (Maine Question 1) support had shifted so that the measures pased but by a narrow percentage where a shift on on 2.5%-2.75% would have changed the outcome. In 2012, four measures during general elections, and all won because that 2.5%-3% shifted in the other way - one of course being Maines repeal which they had passed only 4 years before.

    There is no denying the fact that the trend has been shifting to not denying Civil Marriage equality as shown not only in opinion polls but at the ballot boxes during general elections.


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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    The bulk of the 33 states passed their Amendments in 2000 & 2004, a couple in 2006 (IIRC). A decade ago margins of victory were 23%-76%. By 2008 (California Prop 8) and 2009 (Maine Question 1) support had shifted so that the measures pased but by a narrow percentage where a shift on on 2.5%-2.75% would have changed the outcome. In 2012, four measures during general elections, and all won because that 2.5%-3% shifted in the other way - one of course being Maines repeal which they had passed only 4 years before.
    So just the "bulk" were a decade ago?

    The bulk of gay marriage has been approved not by a majority of the voters, but court order or legislation.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Popular vote gay marriage is very unpopular as of yet.
    I wouldn't say VERY unpopular. It is getting closer to 50% in many cases. The anti-SSM people have lost. Time and history is on the pro-SSM side.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    So just the "bulk" were a decade ago?

    The bulk of gay marriage has been approved not by a majority of the voters, but court order or legislation.
    The bulk of ex-slaves were freed by executive order and not approved by a majority of the voters
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