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Thread: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    So they are required within a state?
    Why do you keep talking about "within a state"? States, as in governments, require legal paperwork, proof that something is set up. I don't understand why you are so confused about this.
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    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    But I don't.

    I do not support state intervention into marriage.
    Except when you do support state intervention

    Like banning SSM

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Why do you keep talking about "within a state"? States, as in governments, require legal paperwork, proof that something is set up. I don't understand why you are so confused about this.
    I am aware that when the state is involved the state is involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Except when you do support state intervention
    Which I don't.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The "I oppose state intervention in marriage" argument is shoddy at best. The only thing that marriage licenses really do is establish a legal contract between two people to set them up under a protection of legal kinship. Without it, anyone can claim to be anyone else's legal spouse, particularly in the world we live in.

    Without marriage licenses, a person could come in off the street and claim that they are some dying or ill person's husband or wife. Who would know otherwise? Afterall, there would be no legal paperwork to show otherwise. How do you know they didn't live together in secret? How would the hospital know? And if you say "but that is what contracts, such as POAs, living wills, wills are for", well those are still government recognized documents and basically you are simply saying that it should be simply less efficient to have recognition of a spouse.
    So they are required within a state?
    Yes. Even in states (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc.) where you cannot go to a judge and get a civil marriage, one has to register the marriage with the civil authorities for purposes of kinship, death, birth, inheritance, liability, etc.

    There is no state that exists in the world today with "no state intervention in marriage." It's not possible to have.
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    Yes. Even in states (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc.) where you cannot go to a judge and get a civil marriage, one has to register the marriage with the civil authorities for purposes of kinship, death, birth, inheritance, liability, etc.

    There is no state that exists in the world today with "no state intervention in marriage." It's not possible to have.
    Yes, the state is required for state intervention.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    I am aware that when the state is involved the state is involved.



    Which I don't.
    Except when you do
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    I oppose state intervention, yes.

    Except you are wrong.
    If you don't support state intervention, then you support the right of SSM without the state. Correct?

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Except when you do
    Except I don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    If you don't support state intervention, then you support the right to SSM without the state.
    Ignoring that rights do not exist, I do not support state intervention into marriage.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    I am aware that when the state is involved the state is involved.

    Which I don't.
    You continue to post things that are pointless. The state is involved because it is a state issue. Otherwise it is nothing more than a personal relationship, something that exists without the state or any word referring to it as "marriage" at all. You don't get the protections without the state since the state is the one giving you the protections of the relationship. Society is who sets up the state (at least for the US anyway) so society says that it wants protections (and even benefits) available for those who are closest to them in their lives, such as children, parents, siblings, and yes, spouses, especially spouses. We also want protection from our spouses too because a relationship such as marriage almost always involves major financial merging and issues that could harm one of those involved if the other isn't completely truthful or fair.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The state is involved because it is a state issue. Otherwise it is nothing more than a personal relationship, something that exists without the state or any word referring to it as "marriage" at all. You don't get the protections without the state since the state is the one giving you the protections of the relationship. Society is who sets up the state (at least for the US anyway) so society says that it wants protections (and even benefits) available for those who are closest to them in their lives, such as children, parents, siblings, and yes, spouses, especially spouses. We also want protection from our spouses too because a relationship such as marriage almost always involves major financial merging and issues that could harm one of those involved if the other isn't completely truthful or fair.
    The state made it a state issue, and then they stay involved.

    Protection from the state by the state is really silly.

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