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Thread: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

  1. #701
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    As I said, if the state does not recognize your claim to a child, they will eventually take custody of that child until some legal recognition can be made. You are not allowed to raise a child that you have no legal claim over. Perhaps that claim will be made through a blood test, but even then, it would require paperwork and most likely some sort of ruling by a court to establish.

    The fact is that adoption records and birth certificates or some other legal paperwork is how you legally establish a legal kinship to your children or children you are raising/have custody of. That is legally how it works.
    I've read in the past about some tribes where inheritance - for example, next in line to throne - was through the king's sister. Because they KNEW who the kids of the sister were; they couldn't be sure if the king's kids were his own....

    (kind of an aside, but not like Scatt's paying attention to anything you're saying anyway)

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    I oppose state intervention into marriage
    Except when you don't
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Except when you don't
    Except I do not support state intervention into marriage.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    The "I oppose state intervention in marriage" argument is shoddy at best. The only thing that marriage licenses really do is establish a legal contract between two people to set them up under a protection of legal kinship. Without it, anyone can claim to be anyone else's legal spouse, particularly in the world we live in.

    Without marriage licenses, a person could come in off the street and claim that they are some dying or ill person's husband or wife. Who would know otherwise? Afterall, there would be no legal paperwork to show otherwise. How do you know they didn't live together in secret? How would the hospital know? And if you say "but that is what contracts, such as POAs, living wills, wills are for", well those are still government recognized documents and basically you are simply saying that it should be simply less efficient to have recognition of a spouse.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The "I oppose state intervention in marriage" argument is shoddy at best. The only thing that marriage licenses really do is establish a legal contract between two people to set them up under a protection of legal kinship. Without it, anyone can claim to be anyone else's legal spouse, particularly in the world we live in.

    Without marriage licenses, a person could come in off the street and claim that they are some dying or ill person's husband or wife. Who would know otherwise? Afterall, there would be no legal paperwork to show otherwise. How do you know they didn't live together in secret? How would the hospital know? And if you say "but that is what contracts, such as POAs, living wills, wills are for", well those are still government recognized documents and basically you are simply saying that it should be simply less efficient to have recognition of a spouse.
    So they are required within a state?

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Except I do not support state intervention into marriage.
    Except when you do
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Except when you do
    But I don't.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    But I don't.
    Except when you do

    You support govt bans on SSM
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    I've read in the past about some tribes where inheritance - for example, next in line to throne - was through the king's sister. Because they KNEW who the kids of the sister were; they couldn't be sure if the king's kids were his own....

    (kind of an aside, but not like Scatt's paying attention to anything you're saying anyway)
    That's interesting. Obviously we wouldn't need that anymore, since we have genetic testing available to us.

    Although, there have been some cases where mothers have almost lost their children because genetic testing showed the children were not theirs, but more likely to be a sister's kid or someone else related to them. After months of battling, they proved that these mothers were chimeric, meaning they had at least two different sets of DNA in their body. One woman had to have the social worker inside her delivery room with her to prove that she delivered her child, and then the child was tested, and luckily showed up as having the different DNA, so that she could prove the claim that yes there was something different about her genes going to her children to get back her other children. Even genetics aren't foolproof, despite popular belief. I actually started looking into it after watching an episode of CSI and found it was true.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/sc...take.html?_r=0

    Birth certificates, just like marriage licenses, help to simplify establishing legal kinships for us. Sure there are some problems, such as people using them to deny access to that legal kinship for certain groups, but hopefully we can fix that by opening up marriage without any regard to sex/gender and even possibly finding a way to allow at least a recognition of multiple spouses as kin, even if some changes or legal measures need to be made/taken to allow for this.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Except when you do

    You support govt bans on SSM
    But I don't.

    I do not support state intervention into marriage.

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