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Thread: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Sure, but that only is within the state, not outside of it.

    Non-state marriages, sure.
    No, it is within all states. I have birth certificates for my children from Hawaii and NC. Those are recognized by the state of California where I currently live. They are also recognized by the federal government, since my husband and I are both military.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, it is within all states. I have birth certificates for my children from Hawaii and NC. Those are recognized by the state of California where I currently live. They are also recognized by the federal government, since my husband and I are both military.
    Within a state would be within a state.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Within a state would be within a state.
    You are not making any sense. The states all recognize birth certificates from other states (and most do from other countries as well). Those birth certificates are what establish a legal kinship. It is no different than a marriage license. My marriage took place in Virginia, despite living in Hawaii at the time and moving to different states since then, all of which recognize my legal kinship as spouse to my husband established by that legal marriage license from VA. It is all about legal recognition of a legal kinship, which involves some sort of legal paperwork.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are not making any sense. The states all recognize birth certificates from other states (and most do from other countries as well). Those birth certificates are what establish a legal kinship. It is no different than a marriage license. My marriage took place in Virginia, despite living in Hawaii at the time and moving to different states since then, all of which recognize my legal kinship as spouse to my husband established by that legal marriage license from VA. It is all about legal recognition of a legal kinship, which involves some sort of legal paperwork.
    If I say outside the state that does not mean in another state.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    If I say outside the state that does not mean in another state.
    If you are talking about outside the US, then it really isn't relevant to our current discussion, which is about US laws and recognition of kinship.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    If you are talking about outside the US, then it really isn't relevant to our current discussion, which is about US laws and recognition of kinship.
    Outside of any state.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Outside of any state.
    What are you talking about? I said that you should not support birth certificates or adoption papers if you feel the state should be out of marriage completely. Why? Because birth certificates and adoption paperwork perform the same function as marriage licenses do, just for a different type of relationship. Whereas marriage licenses set up a legal kinship between spouses, both birth certificates and adoption papers set up a legal kinship between parents and children. All these legal forms are used to set up state recognition of personal relationships, legal kinships for legal purposes. They serve purpose on a personal level or outside any state or country, entity that refuses to recognize them as legal. On a personal level, a person can claim anyone as their spouse or even their child. My parents both claim my best friend as their daughter, as my siblings and I claim her as a sister. Doesn't mean there is any legal connection there.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    What are you talking about? I said that you should not support birth certificates or adoption papers if you feel the state should be out of marriage completely. Why? Because birth certificates and adoption paperwork perform the same function as marriage licenses do, just for a different type of relationship. Whereas marriage licenses set up a legal kinship between spouses, both birth certificates and adoption papers set up a legal kinship between parents and children. All these legal forms are used to set up state recognition of personal relationships, legal kinships for legal purposes. They serve purpose on a personal level or outside any state or country, entity that refuses to recognize them as legal. On a personal level, a person can claim anyone as their spouse or even their child. My parents both claim my best friend as their daughter, as my siblings and I claim her as a sister. Doesn't mean there is any legal connection there.
    I can support non-state adoptions, for example, because the state is not required for an adoption to exist.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Non-state marriages, sure.
    So states should not be involved in marriage, but when states are involved in marriage, it's OK
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    I can support non-state adoptions, for example, because the state is not required for an adoption to exist.
    For the adoption to be legally recognized by the state, then yes the state is required for the adoption to exist. We are discussing legal recognition of kinship (since that is what this really is about when it comes to legal recognition of marriages), which means that people doing things illegally, such as going to another country and simply bringing home a child from that country, without any legal paperwork (assuming the child was allowed into our country to begin with without that legal paperwork proving adoption) whoever brought that child here would not have a legal claim over them. To claim them on taxes, they would need an SSN, which means needing legal paperwork. To have them covered under healthcare that the adult has or is trying to get, they need a SSN and likely a birth certificate. To enter school, a legal relationship has to be proven along with legal custody of that child. A legal relationship must be established in order for a parent/child relationship to be recognized legally within the US.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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