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Thread: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Maybe "the state can't be arsed to grant freedom" is an important interest in your authoritarian universe, but in the real world that doesn't pass the test.
    The state specifically removes freedom. What you mean is the state first bans freedom and then occasionally removes that ban.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    The state specifically removes freedom. What you mean is the state first bans freedom and then occasionally removes that ban.
    Yes, and in your authoritarian viewpoint it's acceptable for the state to fail to remove that ban because doing so is an inconvenience. Just another authority-worshiping conservative. Let's not bother the government by demanding equal protection under the law
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yes, and in your authoritarian viewpoint it's acceptable for the state to fail to remove that ban because doing so is an inconvenience. Just another authority-worshiping conservative. Let's not bother the government by demanding equal protection under the law
    Except authoritarianism is the exact opposite of my position. I support no state intervention into any marriage. The ban being there is state intervention into marriage.

    Try and keep up.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Except authoritarianism is the exact opposite of my position. I support no state intervention into any marriage. The ban being there is state intervention into marriage.

    Try and keep up.
    Yes, you're an authoritarian. You literally just said that equal protection under the law can be circumvented if providing equal protection is a "burden" on the state. That is the ultimate authoritarian idea.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yes, you're an authoritarian. You literally just said that equal protection under the law can be circumvented if providing equal protection is a "burden" on the state. That is the ultimate authoritarian idea.
    I said I support no state intervention into any marriage, and then pointed out that marriage does not mean same sex people.

    I didn't say it, turbo said it. He said what is the excuse they can use, and using that question from the premise of yours and his, that the state must exist, I answered. Again, I do not support state intervention into any marriage.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Gay marriage is not a "right" yet
    .



    Tell that to all of the gay people getting married in Utah.




    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for your self." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    I said I support no state intervention into any marriage, and then pointed out that marriage does not mean same sex people.

    I didn't say it, turbo said it. He said what is the excuse they can use, and using that question from the premise of yours and his, that the state must exist, I answered. Again, I do not support state intervention into any marriage.
    You said the state interest in defining marriage as not meaning same-sex was that changing a definition is a burden. I don't care what you claim to think about marriage contracts. I was asking about an equal protection challenge and your idea of a state interest is that equal protection is a "burden." Maybe you think marriage contracts shouldn't exist. Fine, that's your belief. But back in reality, they do exist. If the state is going to recognize them and apply a gender-based distinction regarding a contract between two private individuals, it has to show an important state interest in making that distinction.

    And your answer was that equal protection is a "burden." The ultimate authoritarian answer: the state can dodge equal protection if it doesn't feel like providing it. A real "small government" type would agree that if marriage contracts are going to exist, a gender-based classification is unacceptable in absence of a compelling reason to justify it.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You said the state interest in defining marriage as not meaning same-sex was that changing a definition is a burden. I don't care what you claim to think about marriage contracts. I was asking about an equal protection challenge and your idea of a state interest is that equal protection is a "burden." Maybe you think marriage contracts shouldn't exist. Fine, that's your belief. But back in reality, they do exist. If the state is going to recognize them and apply a gender-based distinction regarding a contract between two private individuals, it has to show an important state interest in making that distinction.

    And your answer was that equal protection is a "burden." The ultimate authoritarian answer: the state can dodge equal protection if it doesn't feel like providing it. A real "small government" type would agree that if marriage contracts are going to exist, a gender-based classification is unacceptable in absence of a compelling reason to justify it.
    Yeah, that requires the premise of the state existing. Freedom is always a burden to the state.

    Contracts can and do exist irrelevant of any state, and that is reality.

    Your problem is that you think I support the state like you, but I do not support the state because of what it entails.

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Tell that to all of the gay people getting married in Utah.
    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for your self." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
    I have no desire to go to Utah.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Yeah, that requires the premise of the state existing. Freedom is always a burden to the state.

    Contracts can and do exist irrelevant of any state, and that is reality.

    Your problem is that you think I support the state like you, but I do not support the state because of what it entails.



    I have no desire to go to Utah.
    Are you claiming to be an anarchist?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Yeah, that requires the premise of the state existing. Freedom is always a burden to the state.

    Contracts can and do exist irrelevant of any state, and that is reality.

    Your problem is that you think I support the state like you, but I do not support the state because of what it entails.


    I have no desire to go to Utah.



    Then don't go to Utah.

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