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Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
His existence does not alter the fact that only very recently, and for political reasons, has marriage ever been claimed to mean same sex, and certainly not federally.
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Definitions change. It doesn't matter what something meant in the past. When it comes to something we are talking about today, marriage, it only matters what people want it to mean now, and that is to include those of the same sex.

And since yes same sex couples have been able to be married since at least as far back as 2004 (truly earlier, since it really was as soon as we started recognizing people as being legally able to change their gender/sex), then that means that the change has occurred. And federally, same sex marriage is legal. On a personal level, marriage has included same sex couples for a very long time because it only takes one.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
Definitions change.
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More slowly in terms of the state, as can be seen with the federal government.

Cardinal said:
First, all such changes are political in nature. Second, something being political has no bearing on whether or not that change is morally right.
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Not interested in moral based argument as morals are laughably subjective.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
More slowly in terms of the state, as can be seen with the federal government.



Not interested in moral based argument as morals are laughably subjective.
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Indeed they are, as demonstrated by the changing moral climate that increasingly sees gays as deserving of equal protection under the law.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
In other words, you have a personal definition of marriage that you don't want to change despite the fact that it already had. Marriage already includes same sex couples, whether you approve or not. You do not own the definition of marriage. You do not own the right to tell others that they cannot legally be involved in marriage because you think that it is only between two people of the opposite sex.
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And really, neither do you. I guess there is no reason to go to court, have votes, protests, etc... since you've declared that marriage is already a same sex thing too. You better tell these people to stop.

Yeah, I have that personal definition in my personal dictionary, lol.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Cardinal said:
changing moral climate
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Correct, totally made up nothingness.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Correct, totally made up nothingness.
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But very real to people directly impacted by how that morality has been legislated. A better example of "made up nothingness" would be the resistance to gay marriage by people who are unaffected by it in any concrete sense.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Cardinal said:
who are unaffected
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Unaffected? Do you mean morally, to you, unaffected
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Unaffected? Do you mean morally, to you, unaffected
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Interesting that you left out "in any concrete sense." I put that there for a reason.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Cardinal said:
Interesting that you left out "in any concrete sense." I put that there for a reason.
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So affected just not in a way you find to be wrong?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
So affected just not in a way you find to be wrong?
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Look, this debate is really, really old. For years people who've resisted gay marriage have been asked to explain how they are affected by gays marrying, and they can't. The jury is in: you can't demonstrate how you're affected in any concrete sense by gay marriage, so just drop it. This block has been circled millions of times already.
 
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Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Cardinal said:
For years people who've resisted gay marriage have been asked to explain how they are affected by gays marrying
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Taxation.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Taxation.
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Sandwiches!

Oh, I'm sorry. Were you starting a game where we listed random single words, or did you intend to attach an argument to "taxation?"
 
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Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Anthony60 said:
And really, neither do you. I guess there is no reason to go to court, have votes, protests, etc... since you've declared that marriage is already a same sex thing too. You better tell these people to stop.

Yeah, I have that personal definition in my personal dictionary, lol.
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US law works in a way where allowing the most people the most freedoms is the goal. And the way US legal marriage works, sex/gender in no way limits the functions of each spouse in a marriage legally.

The dictionary includes both, unless you have an outdated dictionary.

Marriage - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

" a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage"

Marriage | Define Marriage at Dictionary.com

"marriage
  Use Marriage in a sentence
mar·riage
[mar-ij] Show IPA
noun
1.
(broadly) any of the diverse forms of interpersonal union established in various parts of the world to form a familial bond that is recognized legally, religiously, or socially, granting the participating partners mutual conjugal rights and responsibilities and including, for example, opposite-sex marriage, same-sex marriage, plural marriage, and arranged marriage:, Anthropologists say that some type of marriage has been found in every known human society since ancient times. See word Story at the current entry. "
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Taxation.
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Means nothing. They are free to marry someone of the opposite sex so you have no argument there. Not to mention, economists and studies show that there would be more taxes brought in with same sex marriage legal than with it being restricted.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
Means nothing.
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Taxation mean theft of labor. And then stealing from you to promote something you do not support, is added.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Taxation mean theft of labor. And then stealing from you to promote something you do not support, is added.
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No you are simply not making any sense again. How does that have anything to do with marriage and same sex marriage affects those who are against it?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

roguenuke said:
How does that have anything to do with marriage and same sex marriage affects those who are against it?
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Is taxation used for anything related to gay marriage?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Taxation mean theft of labor. And then stealing from you to promote something you do not support, is added.
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So what are you proposing? The abolition of all taxes? Because as there isn't a 100% consensus on anything that's essentially what you're saying, and that seems like an awfully extreme reaction to 5% of the population now being allowed to marry each other.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Cardinal said:
So what are you proposing? The abolition of all taxes? Because as there isn't a 100% consensus on anything that's essentially what you're saying, and that seems like an awfully extreme reaction to 5% of the population now being allowed to marry each other.
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Sure, I do not support theft of labor.

5 percent seems high.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Is taxation used for anything related to gay marriage?
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Taxation is used for a lot of things. And it has been shown that there is a net benefit to same sex marriage being legal, not a loss. This means that more money is brought in for the use by society as a whole by same sex marriages than lost to same sex marriages.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Sure, I do not support theft of labor.

5 percent seems high.
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I'd be interested to hear how you think a country is supposed to function without taxes.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Taxation mean theft of labor. And then stealing from you to promote something you do not support, is added.
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Which has precisely nothing to do with gay marriage. How is the government using "your tax dollars" to "promote" gay marriage.

What in the actual **** are you talking about?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
You mean forced taxes, right?
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Call it "macaroni salad" for all I care. How is a country supposed to function without taxes?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Are taxes being spent on gay marriage in anyway?
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Not in any way that it's not being spent on straight marriage. I suppose one could say that the clerk or whoever issues the marriage license is paid by tax dollars, but even then that's a pretty pathetic argument against marriage equality.
 
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