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Thread: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

  1. #381
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    This was just posted on Reddit, and its pretty applicable to the 'freedom' mantra of being able to reject people and pass laws against them. Just substitute "gay," "muslim" or whatever you want with the word "Christian":


    "I have no problem with you being a Christian, but don't teach it in schools, or to my children. It's not being Christian that's wrong, it's the act that's wrong. The act of going to Church -- the act of praying. I have no problem with you being Christian, but do it in your home and keep it there. It's unnatural you see. No one is born Christian, you have to develop those beliefs, and it's a choice to act on Christian beliefs, such as going to Church or praying.

    And your religion shouldn't be legally recognized as a religion, because that would force me to accept Christianity as legitimate, and that would degrade my religion. So I'm going to fight for Traditional religion with a capital "T". If you want to have Christianity legally recognized and to get tax exempt status, then you would be stepping on my religious freedoms. I shouldn't have to recognize your religion as legitimate.

    Just to reiterate: I have no problem with Christians. Just the act of being Christian. I love Christians! You can be Christian all you want, just leave it at the home and don't talk about it to my children or bring it into society. Christianity shouldn't be legally recognized because that would force me to recognize it as legitimate, which I don't. I don't want to have to recognize it as equal under the protection of the law to my own religion. Freedom means people have the right to reject how other people live their lives.
    "

    bold is where is where the statement fails.

    red is 100% correct............and this means i have the freedom to reject what anyone believes be it Christianity or homosexuality..........but some people only feel you can reject one of them......and it seems to be the former.
    Last edited by Master PO; 12-25-13 at 03:17 PM.

  2. #382
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Yeah, because turning the 66% of voters that voted to put traditional marriage as the definition of marriage for their state into second class citizens and saying their right to vote and the states ability to define marriage for itself made an "irrational" decision is "cool."

    It's not cool, it's sick and such a massive injustice against freedom and human rights. Regardless of your stance on SSM, this is wrong on so many levels.
    The citizens of Utah have no right to vote away rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States. Period.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  3. #383
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    The citizens of Utah have no right to vote away rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States. Period.
    you are correct, that is why the founders hated democracy, and with the creation of referendums, this has lead to direct democracy votes of the people.

    democracy is ALWAYS at war with individual liberty.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Assertions made without an argument (such as the assertion that Christianity is morally on the same level as sodomy) can be dismissed without an argument (as I did).
    You asserted that Christianity was good, sodomy was bad, with no evidence, no proof, no citations. YOU are the one who made an assertion (a ridiculous one in my opinion) with no argument.

    I assure you can can find people who say Christianity is bad, sodomy is good with JUST as much evidence - or maybe more - than you have for your assertion. But what is the point since nothing will open your mind?

    Re your comment
    Getting vaccinated, riding an airplane, and using a computer are not unnatural, as they do not contradict any of the natural ends of man
    Really? You see nothing unnatural about people flying way above the earth? If we had been meant to fly, your god would have given us wings! And vaccines - that's interfering with god's process of reducing population! and definitely interfering with nature's way of culling us.

    But again, what's the point? Anything you like is good, anything you dislike is bad.... we get it. We don't agree, but we understand where you are coming from.

  5. #385
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Based on what case?
    Romer v. Evans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - first to address LGBT as a distinct class

    In the DOMA case:

    2. DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment. Pp. 13-26.
    "Its operation is also directed to a class of persons that the laws of New York, and of 11 other States, have sought to protect"
    "The State’s decision to give this class of persons the right to marry conferred upon them a dignity and status of immense import"

    The writing is so greatly on the wall here that even scalia admitted it's inevitable the court will rule all gay marriage bans unconstitutional.

  6. #386
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    You asserted that Christianity was good, sodomy was bad, with no evidence, no proof, no citations. YOU are the one who made an assertion (a ridiculous one in my opinion) with no argument.

    I assure you can can find people who say Christianity is bad, sodomy is good with JUST as much evidence - or maybe more - than you have for your assertion. But what is the point since nothing will open your mind?

    Re your comment


    Really? You see nothing unnatural about people flying way above the earth? If we had been meant to fly, your god would have given us wings! And vaccines - that's interfering with god's process of reducing population! and definitely interfering with nature's way of culling us.

    But again, what's the point? Anything you like is good, anything you dislike is bad.... we get it. We don't agree, but we understand where you are coming from.
    The post I was responding to was making a point that required that Christianity and sodomy be regarded as equal. No evidence was given for this assertion.

    Which element of human nature is contradicted by flight or vaccinations? And please don't give an answer that relies on a definition of the word "nature" that is contrary to the traditional definition that I am using.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    The post I was responding to was making a point that required that Christianity and sodomy be regarded as equal. No evidence was given for this assertion.

    Which element of human nature is contradicted by flight or vaccinations? And please don't give an answer that relies on a definition of the word "nature" that is contrary to the traditional definition that I am using.
    What definition of "natural" are you using? Is it one where you can flap your arms and rise into the sky? Planes are very unnatural. In the "natural" world, kids died from measles, mumps, polio, chicken pox, etc.

    Or are you using a definition "if I like it it's natural"?

    Sodomy is natural - humans will do it, gay or straight, even if raised in the wild far from any human civilization.

    Christianity is actually not really "natural" as an institution. Without books, buildings, an organized priesthood, christianity wouldn't be around.

  8. #388
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Getting vaccinated, riding an airplane, and using a computer are not unnatural, as they do not contradict any of the natural ends of man. And no, unnatural sexual activity isn't the only thing that should be banned, murder should be as well, as it is even more unnatural than sodomy.
    Sodomy doesn't contradict any of your arbitrary "natural ends" of man. You didn't come to the conclusion that homosexuality was wrong because it's unnatural. You decided it was wrong and now are trying to twist a logic pretzel to justify it.
    Last edited by Deuce; 12-26-13 at 01:29 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  9. #389
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    What definition of "natural" are you using? Is it one where you can flap your arms and rise into the sky? Planes are very unnatural. In the "natural" world, kids died from measles, mumps, polio, chicken pox, etc.

    Or are you using a definition "if I like it it's natural"?

    Sodomy is natural - humans will do it, gay or straight, even if raised in the wild far from any human civilization.

    Christianity is actually not really "natural" as an institution. Without books, buildings, an organized priesthood, christianity wouldn't be around.
    I'm using the traditional scholastic definition of "natural".

    Correct. Christianity is supernatural.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Sodomy doesn't contradict any of your arbitrary "natural ends" of man. You didn't come to the conclusion that homosexuality was wrong because it's unnatural. You decided it was wrong and now are trying to twist a logic pretzel to justify it.
    Sodomy contradicts the natural end of the sexual act (procreation).

  10. #390
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    I'm using the traditional scholastic definition of "natural".

    Correct. Christianity is supernatural.



    Sodomy contradicts the natural end of the sexual act (procreation).
    Procreation isn't the natural end of sodomy. I really think you should have paid more attention in sex ed.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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