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Thread: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    It is perfectly easy to understand grammatically unless you ignore what I was responding to (which you did). Try and keep up with your own posts.

    Again, the supreme court specifically did not make that claim because they would need to first specify that gay marriage is a right. As of right now it is not a legal right unless the state decides it is.

    No, if it was comprehensible, I wouldnt have asked. As you can see, I am quite competent in my reading and writing skills.

    And the govt does not have to prove or claim marriage as a right. It DOES however, if it bases its claims on discrimination, have to accord the same benefits, privileges, penalties even, and legal protections EQUALLY.

    Just like a state cannot deny a driver's license based on discriminatory reasons. Driving isnt a right, but the govt may not regulate it using discriminatory policies.
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Agreed. And there are several states in which sexual orientation is a protected class.

    They are not yet, at the federal level, but it's probably coming.

    OTOH, as has been posted here, this is also gender-based discrimination when it comes to the legal protections. For example, when a woman is dying and the hospital will not let her lesbian partner in to be with her, that has been determined to be gender-based discrimination. As have been some adoption laws.
    Agreed but for that last example. That is not an example of gender based discrimination. The hospital won't let ANYONE visit in those circumstances but for family, whether they be male or female.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    No, if it was comprehensible, I wouldnt have asked. As you can see, I am quite competent in my reading and writing skills.

    And the govt does not have to prove or claim marriage as a right. It DOES however, if it bases its claims on discrimination, have to accord the same benefits, privileges, penalties even, and legal protections EQUALLY.

    Just like a state cannot deny a driver's license based on discriminatory reasons. Driving isnt a right, but the govt may not regulate it using discriminatory policies.
    So your claim is that it makes no sense to answer a question in that way, to yourself personally and emotionally? You are not important to the existence of grammar. My response absolutely makes sense if you read it as a response to your question (which you did not). Try and keep up with your own posts.

    First off, state discrimination is allowed: see affirmative action in public schools and public jobs. So you can stop pretending otherwise. Secondly, the supreme court specifically did not claim gay marriage is a right in the states because they do not see it is a right for the states.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    What group of Americans is being discriminated against there?
    The drinking population.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    i only to make one address, becuase i not going to answer 10 times.

    the whole idea of the thread was that people used a referendum to ban gay marriage, ...they exercised direct democracy ....and in doing it, which our founders hated, that action was illegal becuase it violated people rights, becuase democracy is ALWAYS at war with individual liberty.

    but some of you people do not all understand [freedom], you believe it is everyone agreeing with you and your ideas, and when the dont, they are a racist.. bigot,... hateful.. mean and whatever you can think of.

    freedom means disagreement, , if we as a people all agreed on everything we did, we would need freedom at all, but because we are not all cut from the same piece of cloth, we are going to disagree.

    most of the problems of the world are caused by FORCE, the force of government stopping people from engaging in something, or forcing people to do something, even though the individual has committed no crime, or has not put the health and safety of people at risk.

    you people need to understand what freedom is, it is not a tool for you to bully other people into thinking as you do, or forcing them to act according to you wishes, as many of you think.

    its no wonderful the liberty of the american people is fading, becuase of people with your kind of thoughts.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    America.

    And a Supreme Court that makes up a bunch of other limitations that were never imagined before.

    Sodomy, contraception, abortion, all powered by the same mindset which separates sex from its natural end (the creation of new life).
    There's been very little natural limitations on human behavior since pre-biblical times. That said, almost all mammals have been shown in nature to partake of sexual acts that have nothing to do with reproduction but instead only address the natural state of being horny.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    As I said, the mindset which holds that the primary purpose of sex is pleasure, and not procreation.
    Sucks to be you. You only have sex when you want to procreate? poor person.

    Does that mean people who are infertile shouldn't be allowed to get married? What about people over the age of fertility? Should they be blocked from getting married? What about those of us who choose not to have kids? Doomed to never have sex?

    And yes, I say "doomed" - sex is fun.

    In terms of "natural" ... my male (neutered) dog not only humps his (spayed) sister - sometimes from the side, sometimes in a more accurate area - he also humps our cats.

    "Natural" is an over-used term to define what people want to allow re sex and not allow.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Those that wish to buy/sell beer or alcohol on Sunday. Even the NASCAR schedule is built around these goofy laws.
    they don't sell booze on Sunday where you live? bummer. You can work to change that. But sadly, booze drinkers/buyers are not a protected class.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Your "Nuh-uh!" is not much of an argument and insignificant
    Then it's a perfect match for your original comment. Which is of course why I made it.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Agreed but for that last example. That is not an example of gender based discrimination. The hospital won't let ANYONE visit in those circumstances but for family, whether they be male or female.
    "Sorry people, you can't get married but we won't let you visit your long-term partner in the hospital because you aren't married". Talk about Catch-22!

    I'm pretty sure unmarried heterosexual couples can visit their partners.


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i only to make one address, becuase i not going to answer 10 times.

    the whole idea of the thread was that people used a referendum to ban gay marriage, ...they exercised direct democracy ....and in doing it, which our founders hated, that action was illegal becuase it violated people rights, becuase democracy is ALWAYS at war with individual liberty.

    but some of you people do not all understand [freedom], you believe it is everyone agreeing with you and your ideas, and when the dont, they are a racist.. bigot,... hateful.. mean and whatever you can think of.

    freedom means disagreement, , if we as a people all agreed on everything we did, we would need freedom at all, but because we are not all cut from the same piece of cloth, we are going to disagree.

    most of the problems of the world are caused by FORCE, the force of government stopping people from engaging in something, or forcing people to do something, even though the individual has committed no crime, or has not put the health and safety of people at risk.

    you people need to understand what freedom is, it is not a tool for you to bully other people into thinking as you do, or forcing them to act according to you wishes, as many of you think.

    its no wonderful the liberty of the american people is fading, becuase of people with your kind of thoughts.
    A) Voting cannot take away someone's constitutional rights. Period. You could not vote to take away women's right to vote, no matter how much you might want to.

    B) If we were forcing you to marry a same sex partner, you might have a case. How does two women getting married force YOU to do anything?

    C) how does expanding freedom limit the liberty of the American people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    No, if it was comprehensible, I wouldnt have asked. As you can see, I am quite competent in my reading and writing skills.

    And the govt does not have to prove or claim marriage as a right. It DOES however, if it bases its claims on discrimination, have to accord the same benefits, privileges, penalties even, and legal protections EQUALLY.

    Just like a state cannot deny a driver's license based on discriminatory reasons. Driving isnt a right, but the govt may not regulate it using discriminatory policies.
    Actually, the Supreme Court has declared marriage as a right (see the lawsuits re prisoners getting married - marriage is a right, they can get married, states can put reasonable restrictions around when/how)

    -----------------------------------------------------
    And re other comments about why the SC hasn't ruled on same sex marriage -

    In terms of why the SC hasn't ruled on same sex marriage yet - there hasn't been a case that has gotten to them yet that they have chosen to rule on. The only one so far is the Prop 8 case which, once they reviewed, they decided wasn't something they could rule on due to lack of standing of the people trying to defend Prop 8.

    The case will come that the SC takes up, and my guess is - much as with Loving - they will decide that banning same sex marriages is unconstitutional. Of course, by then so many states will have it and the lack of harm from allowing them will be so obvious that it won't be that earth-shattering except to the few people who still hate gays/lesbians.

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