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Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

sangha said:
There have been dozens of cases, but the following is one of the more well known ones

Heart of Atlanta Motel v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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That 1964 federal law does not define "gender preference" as a protected class. That case specifically addressed racial discrimination and an existing federal law specifically prohibiting it - not some assertion that the 14th amendment applied to commerce.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paleocon said:
The difference of course is that Christianity is good whereas sodomy is bad.
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ROFL!!! did you seriously type that with a straight face?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ttwtt78640 said:
That 1964 federal law does not define "gender preference" as a protected class. That case specifically addressed racial discrimination and an existing federal law specifically prohibiting it - not some assertion that the 14th amendment applied to commerce.
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:doh:

You asked about protected classes in general; not gender preference

ttwtt78640 said:
Where do you get these "protected classes" of citizens? Can you share a source for this? I always thought that all were due equal protection of the law and due process.

Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Try to remember what you asked for and stop complaining when you get it
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

paddymcdougall said:
ROFL!!! did you seriously type that with a straight face?
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Assertions made without an argument (such as the assertion that Christianity is morally on the same level as sodomy) can be dismissed without an argument (as I did).
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

brothern said:
This was just posted on Reddit, and its pretty applicable to the 'freedom' mantra of being able to reject people and pass laws against them. Just substitute "gay," "muslim" or whatever you want with the word "Christian":


"I have no problem with you being a Christian, but don't teach it in schools, or to my children. It's not being Christian that's wrong, it's the act that's wrong. The act of going to Church -- the act of praying. I have no problem with you being Christian, but do it in your home and keep it there. It's unnatural you see. No one is born Christian, you have to develop those beliefs, and it's a choice to act on Christian beliefs, such as going to Church or praying.

And your religion shouldn't be legally recognized as a religion, because that would force me to accept Christianity as legitimate, and that would degrade my religion. So I'm going to fight for Traditional religion with a capital "T". If you want to have Christianity legally recognized and to get tax exempt status, then you would be stepping on my religious freedoms. I shouldn't have to recognize your religion as legitimate.

Just to reiterate: I have no problem with Christians. Just the act of being Christian. I love Christians! You can be Christian all you want, just leave it at the home and don't talk about it to my children or bring it into society. Christianity shouldn't be legally recognized because that would force me to recognize it as legitimate, which I don't. I don't want to have to recognize it as equal under the protection of the law to my own religion. Freedom means people have the right to reject how other people live their lives."
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bold is where is where the statement fails.

red is 100% correct............and this means i have the freedom to reject what anyone believes be it Christianity or homosexuality..........but some people only feel you can reject one of them......and it seems to be the former.
 
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Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

digsbe said:
Yeah, because turning the 66% of voters that voted to put traditional marriage as the definition of marriage for their state into second class citizens and saying their right to vote and the states ability to define marriage for itself made an "irrational" decision is "cool."

It's not cool, it's sick and such a massive injustice against freedom and human rights. Regardless of your stance on SSM, this is wrong on so many levels.
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The citizens of Utah have no right to vote away rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States. Period.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lakryte said:
The citizens of Utah have no right to vote away rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States. Period.
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you are correct, that is why the founders hated democracy, and with the creation of referendums, this has lead to direct democracy votes of the people.

democracy is ALWAYS at war with individual liberty.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paleocon said:
Assertions made without an argument (such as the assertion that Christianity is morally on the same level as sodomy) can be dismissed without an argument (as I did).
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You asserted that Christianity was good, sodomy was bad, with no evidence, no proof, no citations. YOU are the one who made an assertion (a ridiculous one in my opinion) with no argument.

I assure you can can find people who say Christianity is bad, sodomy is good with JUST as much evidence - or maybe more - than you have for your assertion. But what is the point since nothing will open your mind?

Re your comment
Getting vaccinated, riding an airplane, and using a computer are not unnatural, as they do not contradict any of the natural ends of man
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Really? You see nothing unnatural about people flying way above the earth? If we had been meant to fly, your god would have given us wings! And vaccines - that's interfering with god's process of reducing population! and definitely interfering with nature's way of culling us.

But again, what's the point? Anything you like is good, anything you dislike is bad.... we get it. We don't agree, but we understand where you are coming from.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

ttwtt78640 said:
Based on what case?
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Romer v. Evans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - first to address LGBT as a distinct class

In the DOMA case:

2. DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment. Pp. 13-26.
"Its operation is also directed to a class of persons that the laws of New York, and of 11 other States, have sought to protect"
"The State’s decision to give this class of persons the right to marry conferred upon them a dignity and status of immense import"

The writing is so greatly on the wall here that even scalia admitted it's inevitable the court will rule all gay marriage bans unconstitutional.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

paddymcdougall said:
You asserted that Christianity was good, sodomy was bad, with no evidence, no proof, no citations. YOU are the one who made an assertion (a ridiculous one in my opinion) with no argument.

I assure you can can find people who say Christianity is bad, sodomy is good with JUST as much evidence - or maybe more - than you have for your assertion. But what is the point since nothing will open your mind?

Re your comment


Really? You see nothing unnatural about people flying way above the earth? If we had been meant to fly, your god would have given us wings! And vaccines - that's interfering with god's process of reducing population! and definitely interfering with nature's way of culling us.

But again, what's the point? Anything you like is good, anything you dislike is bad.... we get it. We don't agree, but we understand where you are coming from.
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The post I was responding to was making a point that required that Christianity and sodomy be regarded as equal. No evidence was given for this assertion.

Which element of human nature is contradicted by flight or vaccinations? And please don't give an answer that relies on a definition of the word "nature" that is contrary to the traditional definition that I am using.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paleocon said:
The post I was responding to was making a point that required that Christianity and sodomy be regarded as equal. No evidence was given for this assertion.

Which element of human nature is contradicted by flight or vaccinations? And please don't give an answer that relies on a definition of the word "nature" that is contrary to the traditional definition that I am using.
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What definition of "natural" are you using? Is it one where you can flap your arms and rise into the sky? Planes are very unnatural. In the "natural" world, kids died from measles, mumps, polio, chicken pox, etc.

Or are you using a definition "if I like it it's natural"?

Sodomy is natural - humans will do it, gay or straight, even if raised in the wild far from any human civilization.

Christianity is actually not really "natural" as an institution. Without books, buildings, an organized priesthood, christianity wouldn't be around.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paleocon said:
Getting vaccinated, riding an airplane, and using a computer are not unnatural, as they do not contradict any of the natural ends of man. And no, unnatural sexual activity isn't the only thing that should be banned, murder should be as well, as it is even more unnatural than sodomy.
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Sodomy doesn't contradict any of your arbitrary "natural ends" of man. You didn't come to the conclusion that homosexuality was wrong because it's unnatural. You decided it was wrong and now are trying to twist a logic pretzel to justify it.
 
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Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

paddymcdougall said:
What definition of "natural" are you using? Is it one where you can flap your arms and rise into the sky? Planes are very unnatural. In the "natural" world, kids died from measles, mumps, polio, chicken pox, etc.

Or are you using a definition "if I like it it's natural"?

Sodomy is natural - humans will do it, gay or straight, even if raised in the wild far from any human civilization.

Christianity is actually not really "natural" as an institution. Without books, buildings, an organized priesthood, christianity wouldn't be around.
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I'm using the traditional scholastic definition of "natural".

Correct. Christianity is supernatural.

Deuce said:
Sodomy doesn't contradict any of your arbitrary "natural ends" of man. You didn't come to the conclusion that homosexuality was wrong because it's unnatural. You decided it was wrong and now are trying to twist a logic pretzel to justify it.
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Sodomy contradicts the natural end of the sexual act (procreation).
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paleocon said:
I'm using the traditional scholastic definition of "natural".

Correct. Christianity is supernatural.



Sodomy contradicts the natural end of the sexual act (procreation).
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Procreation isn't the natural end of sodomy. I really think you should have paid more attention in sex ed.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Deuce said:
Procreation isn't the natural end of sodomy. I really think you should have paid more attention in sex ed.
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Procreation is the natural end of sex. Sodomy contradicts this and is thus unnatural. It's not really that complicated.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Lakryte said:
The citizens of Utah have no right to vote away rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States. Period.
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Gay marriage is not a "right" yet.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paleocon said:
Procreation is the natural end of sex. Sodomy contradicts this and is thus unnatural. It's not really that complicated.
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It's the natural end of unprotected vaginal intercourse. And nothing else. It's not really that complicated.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

scatt said:
Gay marriage is not a "right" yet.
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The courts have not recognized it as such in a nationwide manner, but that doesn't mean it's not a right.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Deuce said:
It's the natural end of unprotected vaginal intercourse. And nothing else. It's not really that complicated.
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So you deny that the sexual faculty is oriented towards procreation?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Deuce said:
The courts have not recognized it as such in a nationwide manner, but that doesn't mean it's not a right.
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Ignoring that rights do not exist, I am responding from the premise that the state grants rights. And if that is the case, gay marriage is not a right yet.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paleocon said:
Procreation is the natural end of sex. Sodomy contradicts this and is thus unnatural. It's not really that complicated.
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Tell that to Bill Clinton - people didn't buy into his "oral sex isn't sex" argument.

Sex is sex. Sometimes procreative, many times not.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Wait a minute, isent this where they filmed broke back mountain? What a bunch of hipocrites!!! Seriously, I really don't understand why people care if two men or women want to marry. Its about time to tell religion to butt out of our personal lives. Having religion butting into your personal life is just as bad, if not worse, then having the government in your stuff.
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

paddymcdougall said:
Tell that to Bill Clinton - people didn't buy into his "oral sex isn't sex" argument.
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And the sky is blue. Now are we done posting irrelevancies?
 
Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

Paleocon said:
And the sky is blue. Now are we done posting irrelevancies?
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And sex isn't always for procreation. Understand that yet?
 
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