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Thread: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    1.)Well, that is the ultimate question, is there an individual right to change marriage to include other forms of coupling
    2.) and does it trump states rights?
    3.) And do we want to open that door, because you know there will be others that want modifications to suit their own situation. Where do we stop?
    1.) thats not the question because thats not what is being fixed or what individual right is being discussed/fixed in court.
    WHat is being fixed is eliminating the discrimination and infringement of individual equal/civil rights
    2.) no it factually does not because states have no right to infringe on this
    3.) no door is being opened, this strawman always fails, the slippery slope argument. Same argument with womens rights and minority rights and interracial marriage etc.

    if we consider blacks to be men/person we might as well consider my dogs to be people too, where does it end
    if we let women vote we might as well let my horse vote, where does it end

    these arguments were illogical and they failed back then and the same remains true today

    "others" can want modification all they want unless they can make a case for equal/civil rights they have nothing to work with, theres no legal precedence about illegal discrimination, rights infringment and equal/civil rights about hetero/homosexual marriage that lends usage to others.
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Take it up with your homey then. You say he was a coward, he says he was a ****ing moron and a retard. I'm just letting you guys shred him.

    Heres the funny thing...your opinions aside...its ironic that on things like abortion and gay marriage, my position pretty much mirrored Obama's...right up until he decided he needed some quick campaign cash and 'evolved' his position. And I'm the 'conservative'.
    That's the part that makes him a coward. He "personally" thought marriage was between a man and a woman when that was the majority opinion. Then he took a more "in the middle" position with this states' rights nonsense exactly when that became the better political choice. Some of your guys are talking about Obama like he's the second coming of Marx when he's barely even a liberal.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Well, that is the ultimate question, is there an individual right to change marriage to include other forms of coupling, and does it trump states rights? And do we want to open that door, because you know there will be others that want modifications to suit their own situation. Where do we stop?
    Oh I guess with people marrying blow up dolls is a good stopping point.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    1.)I could say that it should not be at the expense of states rights then.
    2.)Civil unions can be made to include all the benifits of marriage, and preserve everyone's rights.
    3.) But it has already been stated, I believe in this thread, that they don't want just the rights, they must have the definition of marriage changed also.
    4.) To me, that sounds like a vindictive, anti Christian position, that should not be rewarded.
    5.) But it probably will, since we know this government is no friend of Christianity.
    1.) you can and should since states rights are 100% intact because they have no right to infringe on individual rights hence they factually arent losing any states rights
    2.) separate but equal is not equal and never will be not to mention this idea as already failed because there is NOTHING legally that is equal to marriage under contract law and by case precedent. Also just an FYI since you seem to not know about this topic many states have banned same sex unions/partnerships also. SO again its the state over stepping its boundaries. SO no everyones rights would not be preserved, theres only one way to do it and thats to grant equal/civil rights to gays.
    3.) and anybody stating it that why is factually wrong they want the rights and the only way to get the rights is to be granted marriage, no definition needs changed, marriage is a contract between two people and it sill will be.
    4.) as usual since 3 is a strawman and factually wrong what it sounds like to you is asinine not to mention the fact legal marriage has NOTHING to do with religion period, let alone christianity. As a christian myself theres zero logic to support something so dishonesty and or irrational.
    5.) another failed strawman lol
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Well, that is the ultimate question, is there an individual right to change marriage to include other forms of coupling, and does it trump states rights? And do we want to open that door, because you know there will be others that want modifications to suit their own situation. Where do we stop?
    We stop when what someone wants is harmful to society.

    Prisoners can marry, even if they are in jail for life.

    Gays/Lesbians can marry (in SSM) in many states; hopefully soon in all states

    If someone else wants to marry, they need to present the case: a) that marriage is a right and that b) allowing their marriage won't be harmful to society.

    Granting more rights has usually been good for our country, but it needs to be on a case by case basis. (or group by group basis).

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    That's the part that makes him a coward. He "personally" thought marriage was between a man and a woman when that was the majority opinion. Then he took a more "in the middle" position with this states' rights nonsense exactly when that became the better political choice. Some of your guys are talking about Obama like he's the second coming of Marx when he's barely even a liberal.

    Well, I'm glad you agree that Pres. Obama is barely a liberal; so many people seem to think he's a communist marxist socialist or something. He's a centrist; and yes, his opinion on SSM has evolved over time. I don't think that's unusual; I think for many people in this country, their opinion on SSM has evolved over time from being against it to now being for it.

    Would I have wished Pres Obama had campaigned for SSM from day one? Sure. But it wasn't really an issue when he first ran for Senate and then President. And, as he was running for a second term, as it became more of an issue, he came out for SSM (while Romney didn't). His position evolved. I think that's good when people are able to re-think their prior positions and change them based on new information. Why do you think that's bad?

    But I agree, he's a centrist, not a liberal; but the candidates I would love to see as president would never win, so I'll take the centrist over people like McCain and Romney any day.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Some of your guys are talking about Obama like he's the second coming of Marx when he's barely even a liberal.
    He's about as left of a president that we've ever had. I think the far lefties call him "barely a liberal" because he can't get their agenda done. He would love to have gotten a single payer government plan. I hear liberals complain that he didn't get it done, therefore he's not a liberal. Only problem is that there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell that he had the votes. If he could nationalize half the industry in this country, he would. Completely rewrite the Constitution; But again, no where near the votes to do it.
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    He's about as left of a president that we've ever had. I think the far lefties call him "barely a liberal" because he can't get their agenda done. He would love to have gotten a single payer government plan. I hear liberals complain that he didn't get it done, therefore he's not a liberal. Only problem is that there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell that he had the votes. If he could nationalize half the industry in this country, he would. Completely rewrite the Constitution; But again, no where near the votes to do it.

    Seriously? compared to Roosevelt, Truman - heck, I think even Nixon might have been a bit to Obama's left.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    Seriously? compared to Roosevelt, Truman - heck, I think even Nixon might have been a bit to Obama's left.
    Yeah, seriously. Why, do you think he didn't get single payer because he is a middle of the road guy and didn't want it?
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    We stop when what someone wants is harmful to society.

    Prisoners can marry, even if they are in jail for life.

    Gays/Lesbians can marry (in SSM) in many states; hopefully soon in all states

    If someone else wants to marry, they need to present the case: a) that marriage is a right and that b) allowing their marriage won't be harmful to society.

    Granting more rights has usually been good for our country, but it needs to be on a case by case basis. (or group by group basis).
    Sure, we allow marajuanna to be sold now, so looks like the "won't be harmful to society" bar has just dropped quite a bit. They are going to demand marriage include them just like gays are doing now. No law will stop them, since civil rights trumps everything these days.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
    "I don't want a piece of you... I want the whole thing!" -- Bob Barker

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