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Thread: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Depends on how the appeal goes. If it goes for Utah those marriages will be seen as null and void and set aside. It's not the SCOTUS that rules in the appeal.

    Not necessarily. The Civil Marriages can (and likely will) remain valid, it's just that Utah may not be required to recognize them. They are likely to remain recognized in the other states that already recognize them and by the federal government.


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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, they'd have no legs to stand on if Utah wins the appeal. Wishful thinking on your part.
    You're wrong. Their marriages were legal when they entered into them in the state of Utah. Nulling/voiding a marriage only works if it was not legal prior to entering into the marriage. The marriage must have been illegal/under false pretenses from the start. They absolutely would have legal standing to challenge the voiding of their legal marriages.

    Nullity of marriage


    Rules

    In order to obtain an annulment (nullity) of your alleged marriage, you must make an application (called a 'petition') to the Circuit Court or the High Court.
    Void marriage

    To prove to the court that your marriage is void you must show one of the following grounds:

    At the time of the marriage ceremony there was a lack of capacity. In other words, you or your spouse was incapable of entering into a binding contract. This may happen where one of you was already validly married or in a civil partnership, where you are too closely related to each other or where you are of the same biological sex.
    The formal requirements for a marriage ceremony were not followed. For example, you did not give due notice to the Registrar of Marriages.
    At the time of the marriage, there was a lack of consent. In other words, you or your spouse did not give free and fully informed consent to the marriage. This may be due to duress, (i.e., you were forced into the marriage), mistake, misrepresentation or fraud. It may also be due to the fact that you or your spouse was suffering from a mental illness or was intoxicated at the time of the marriage.

    Voidable marriage

    To prove to the court that your marriage is voidable, you must show one of the following grounds:

    At the time of the marriage ceremony, either party was impotent. You must show that either you or your spouse was unable to consummate the marriage. You cannot obtain a declaration of nullity because one of you is infertile or because one of you is simply refusing to consummate the marriage. It must be the case that one of you is incapable of sexual intercourse.
    At the time of the marriage ceremony, either party was incapable of entering into and sustaining a proper or normal marriage relationship. This may be due to a psychiatric illness or personality disorder. It may also be due to the sexual orientation of one of the parties. For example, if you discover after you marry that your spouse is homosexual, the court may grant you an annulment.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And I explained to YOU....that the fed govt is NOT acting...the states and the voters are. Some states' SCOTUSes have already ruled on it's Constitutionality. And the fed level SCOTUS is/will be ruling on precedent, on the same interpretations of the Const. that supported Loving vs. VA.

    Again....you have no idea what you are even complaining about. You are looking for 'legitimate' reasons to object to SSM....and are barking up the wrong tree.
    Really? So it was not a federal judge that ruled against the vote taken in Utah? So "the fed is not acting"? But then you say "the fed level SCOTUS is/will be ruling..." So which is it? Make up your mind!
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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Really? So it was not a federal judge that ruled against the vote taken in Utah? So "the fed is not acting"? But then you say "the fed level SCOTUS is/will be ruling..." So which is it? Make up your mind!
    If you read the linked article - next step is the federal appeals court. After that, if one of the parties appeal, it would go to the Supreme Court who, of course, could choose not to consider it.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And I explained to YOU....that the fed govt is NOT acting...the states and the voters are. Some states' SCOTUSes have already ruled on it's Constitutionality. And the fed level SCOTUS is/will be ruling on precedent, on the same interpretations of the Const. that supported Loving vs. VA.

    Again....you have no idea what you are even complaining about. You are looking for 'legitimate' reasons to object to SSM....and are barking up the wrong tree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Really? So it was not a federal judge that ruled against the vote taken in Utah? So "the fed is not acting"? But then you say "the fed level SCOTUS is/will be ruling..." So which is it? Make up your mind!
    So, what part of the bold didnt you understand when you read it for at least the 2nd time? You even quoted it. The state and the voters pushed for SSM...they ACTED....the federal SCOTUS woud INTERPRET EXISTING precedent in their decision.

    The feds didnt try to legalize SSM ANYWHERE. But just like any court, if they take the case they must rule on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You're wrong. Their marriages were legal when they entered into them in the state of Utah. Nulling/voiding a marriage only works if it was not legal prior to entering into the marriage. The marriage must have been illegal/under false pretenses from the start. They absolutely would have legal standing to challenge the voiding of their legal marriages.

    Nullity of marriage
    You're dealing with judges here, they don't care what the rules are. They will rule whatever they want to rule, and figure out how to get there later. Besides, if the Supreme Court rules that way, you're pretty much done.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
    "I don't want a piece of you... I want the whole thing!" -- Bob Barker

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    You're dealing with judges here, they don't care what the rules are. They will rule whatever they want to rule, and figure out how to get there later. Besides, if the Supreme Court rules that way, you're pretty much done.
    @_@ I think I heard my 5 yr old nephew say something similar the other day, but it had to do with a case and a dog that bit someone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Not necessarily. The Civil Marriages can (and likely will) remain valid, it's just that Utah may not be required to recognize them. They are likely to remain recognized in the other states that already recognize them and by the federal government.


    >>>>
    Since it's the state who authorizes those marriages I don't think so.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    IMO Its AWESOME that SCOTUS put this on hold. I hope people keep pushing and pushing and pushing all these cases as much as possible to get SCOTUS to make a ruling. And i hope a national ruling and not just one that is narrow.

    Doesnt matter to me which people push it, whether its the people for equal rights or the bigots against it as long as many cases as possible are pushed up and up and up.

    at this point no matter what little battles are won or lost the writing is on the wall.

    Equal rights is coming and its winning, discrimination and or bigotry is losing! Bigots and people against equal rights and kick and stomp their feet all they want but the war is coming to an end and they lost, victory for america and equal rights will be here soon or later.

    1/5/14 Version 3.3

    18 States with Equal Rights

    Massachusetts - May 17, 2004
    Connecticut - November 12, 2008
    Iowa - April 27, 2009
    Vermont - September 1, 2009
    New Hampshire - January 1, 2010
    Washing D.C. - March 9, 2010
    FALL OF DADT Dec 18, 2010
    New York - July 24, 2011
    Washington - December 6, 2012
    Maine - December 29, 2012
    Maryland - January 1, 2013
    FALL OF DOMA - June 26, 2013
    California - June 28, 2013
    Delaware - July 1, 2013
    Rhode Island - August 1, 2013
    Minnesota - August 1, 2013
    New Jersey - October 21, 2013
    Hawaii - December 2, 2013
    New Mexico – December 19, 2013
    Utah – December 20. 2013 (appealing to supreme court! )
    Illinois - June 1, 2014 effective

    21 States Working Towards Equal Rights

    14 States with Pending Court Cases to Establish Equal Rights
    Alaska (Suit to be filed this month)
    Kentucky
    Idaho
    Louisiana
    Michigan (Feb 2014 Trial)
    Mississippi
    North Carolina
    Oklahoma
    Pennsylvania (June 14 Trial)
    South Carolina
    Tennessee (Direct US Constitution Challenge)
    Texas (Jan 2014 Trial, Direct US Constitution Challenge)
    Virginia (two different suits, one involves Prop8 lawyers)
    West Virginia

    4 States with Court Case(s) and Legislation to establish Equal Rights
    Arizona
    Arkansas (Decesion Pending and 2016 ballot)
    Nevada
    Ohio (December 2013 trial) Trial had narrow ruling that ohio will recognize OTHER state marriages but didn’t impact bans. New cases expected.

    3 States with Legislation to Establish Equal Rights
    Colorado
    Florida
    Oregon

    thats 39 states that could have equal rights by 2016 and some much sooner!

    11 States That still have unequal rights and nothing pending to change it yet

    Alabama
    Indiana
    Missouri
    Montana
    Nebraska
    Georgia
    North Dakota
    Kansas
    South Dakota
    Wisconsin
    Wyoming
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
    Pro-Equal Rights / Pro-Gun Rights / Pro-Human Rights / Pro-Choice

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Since it's the state who authorizes those marriages I don't think so.
    They did authorize those marriages, wanna bet they have licenses that say "State of Utah" on them?

    Look, I agree that they (both the State and the couples) are in a ****ty situation. That's why Judge Shelby should have held implementation of his ruling for 30-days to allow requests for stays to be processed by (a) the 10th Circuit, and (b) the SCOTUS if needed.



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