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Thread: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    Ok! so kids can drive, drink, smoke, get jobs. Let's forget about school - making it mandatory for kids is discrimination by the state, after all! Let's put those kids to work like they do in 3rd world countries.
    You are telling me their parents would decide the need these things, I didn't say they will do these things at all. Wait, do you really think a law banning something means it doesn't happen? Haha, is this grade school?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    So then you feel that if a 5 year old wishes to get a job as a cook then they should be allowed? Or perhaps join the Army? Or maybe sign a contract that says they will work for someone paying them pittance? Or what about working 80 hours a week? If their parents, assuming they have some, don't object, then who else will protect them? Some parents would welcome the extra money from having their young children work, some even forcing their children to do it.
    Sounds like a bad parenting issue.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    And you were arguing with what I said about the courts.

    If your point is that you disagree with the courts, then so be it; it doesn't really matter.
    I don't disagree with the courts, only you. You have failed to show specifically where any court has actually specifically rejected my claim, that the discrimination is based on sex/gender, not sexuality but that it does target homosexuals, because homosexuals are most likely to want to enter into a marriage with someone of the same sex.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Sounds like a bad parenting issue.
    And there are a lot of bad parents out there. You keep repeating yourself because you know there are major issues with just sitting back and allowing parents to make such decisions.

    But the very fact that parents have such power to make such decisions for their children under the law is in fact discrimination based on age or mental capacity, because a person cannot legally have that power over mentally capable adults.

    I asked you, is it okay to allow a 5, 10, or even 15 year old to join the Army? We allow 17 year olds to join with parents' permission, so why not younger?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And there are a lot of bad parents out there. You keep repeating yourself because you know there are major issues with just sitting back and allowing parents to make such decisions.

    I asked you, is it okay to allow a 5, 10, or even 15 year old to join the Army? We allow 17 year olds to join with parents' permission, so why not younger?
    Yes, the state promotes this by giving money for breeding.

    That is a bad parenting issue.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Yes, the state promotes this by giving money for breeding.

    That is a bad parenting issue.
    You are not making any sense. I didn't ask anything about "breeding" or making more children. We could be talking about a well-to-do family that simply wants their child to get a headstart in making it up through the ranks. No government "breeding money" involved.

    As I said, plenty of bad parents out there, many of which have plenty of their own money. Who decides for those children who either have bad parents or no parents? Afterall, some children have no parents due not to the fault of the parents. Can orphans get jobs? What about joining the Army, Navy, or Marines?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I don't disagree with the courts, only you. You have failed to show specifically where any court has actually specifically rejected my claim, that the discrimination is based on sex/gender, not sexuality but that it does target homosexuals, because homosexuals are most likely to want to enter into a marriage with someone of the same sex.
    Now, wait. Previously, you said that courts didn't say what you were saying.

    I've had this conversation with you before. You insisted Judge Walker based his ruling in Perry based on sex discrimination and not sexuality, but that's simply untrue. He rejected sex discrimination as the basis, and specifically based his ruling on discrimination against homosexuals.

    On the basis of what you're saying about homosexuality, there is no sex discrimination in "traditional marriage laws," either. Both sexes are affected in exactly the same way. If you think that it's sex-based discrimination because someone can't choose the sex to marry, then you don't really understand what sex-based discrimination is -- favoring one sex over the other, or discriminating against one sex over the other. Men cannot do something women can't do, and women can't do something men can't do. Just like you say heterosexuals can't so something homosexuals can't do. It's exactly the same dichotomy, or lack of one, depending on how you want to phrase it.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I didn't ask anything about "breeding" or making more children. We could be talking about a well-to-do family that simply wants their child to get a headstart in making it up through the ranks.

    As I said, plenty of bad parents out there, many of which have plenty of their own money. Who decides for those children who either have bad parents or no parents? Afterall, some children have no parents due not to the fault of the parents. Can orphans get jobs? What about joining the Army, Navy, or Marines?
    The business owners would know they do not have much value, and not hire them.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Now, wait. Previously, you said that courts didn't say what you were saying.

    I've had this conversation with you before. You insisted Judge Walker based his ruling in Perry based on sex discrimination and not sexuality, but that's simply untrue. He rejected sex discrimination as the basis, and specifically based his ruling on discrimination against homosexuals.

    On the basis of what you're saying about homosexuality, there is no sex discrimination in "traditional marriage laws," either. Both sexes are affected in exactly the same way. If you think that it's sex-based discrimination because someone can't choose the sex to marry, then you don't really understand what sex-based discrimination is -- favoring one sex over the other, or discriminating against one sex over the other. Men cannot do something women can't do, and women can't do something men can't do. Just like you say heterosexuals can't so something homosexuals can't do. It's exactly the same dichotomy, or lack of one, depending on how you want to phrase it.
    First of all, I have never said that the courts said what I was saying about the laws discriminating based on sex/gender, only that the courts do not contradict me.

    Second, that wasn't me you had the conversation with, but rather another poster.

    There is sex discrimination within the laws that same people of the same sex cannot marry, just as there was discrimination in the laws saying that two people of different races could not marry. Sure, either sex can get married, just as any race could get married, however each sex is limited in who they can marry based solely on their sex, just as races were limited in who they could marry based solely on their race. A woman can only marry a man because she is a woman, just as a white person could only marry a white person because they are white. That means a woman cannot marry a woman, but a man can. Sex discrimination. Just like if a white person cannot marry a black person but a black person can marry a black person, that is race discrimination.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    The business owners would know they do not have much value, and not hire them.
    Because that worked so well in the past. Business owners would never take advantage of children. <sarcasm> It isn't like the government had to make child labor laws or anything because in the past both businesses and parents put their young children to work, in pretty horrible conditions, doing pretty dangerous jobs, right?

    And the Army is part of the government.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    First of all, I have never said that the courts said what I was saying about the laws discriminating based on sex/gender, only that the courts do not contradict me.
    They do when they reject sex-based discrimination as a basis for their rulings.

    Second, that wasn't me you had the conversation with, but rather another poster.
    You're right. That was rivrrat. My mistake.

    There is sex discrimination within the laws that same people of the same sex cannot marry, just as there was discrimination in the laws saying that two people of different races could not marry. Sure, either sex can get married, just as any race could get married, however each sex is limited in who they can marry based solely on their sex, just as races were limited in who they could marry based solely on their race. A woman can only marry a man because she is a woman, just as a white person could only marry a white person because they are white. That means a woman cannot marry a woman, but a man can. Sex discrimination. Just like if a white person cannot marry a black person but a black person can marry a black person, that is race discrimination.
    And that argument applies just as much to discrimination against homosexuality, which is the overall crux of what the courts have said.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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