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Thread: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage[W:780]

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The answer is there is no personal harm. It's the question though that's the problem. If your next door neighbor (we'll call him Jimmy) gets his brains blown out during a drug deal 30 miles away - what harm is caused to you? That would assume then that people killing other people, as long as it's not you, is fine. The assumption that two dudes getting married causes harm is the fallacy.... does something have to cause personal harm for someone to be against it? One would think so given the question. (That may be why you don't get a straight answer).

    so what harm to society is there from two men or two women marrying? You have to prove harm to take someone's rights away

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Okay, well I do not support state discrimination for any reason, and most certainly not the state racial and gender discrimination that occurs.
    So you're ok with 5 yr olds driving? interesting.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    So you're ok with 5 yr olds driving? interesting.
    Sounds like a bad parenting issue.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    And my point, essentially, is that they can never actually specify how SSM is hurting society. It's always "it hurts society by eroding our moral fabric" or something equally vague. Prop 8's legal team failed spectacularly to actually demonstrate any specific harm it causes. People are free to hold these beliefs, but "It's bad because I say it's bad" is not something that tends to sway a court in an equal protection challenge.
    Heck, the pro-prop 8 side, during the Walker trial, admitted our kids would be better off if SSM was legal and that it was more in line with our values to have it legal! Totally agree, they failed spectacularly to prove any harm, and actually supported the side of SSM!

    LOVED reading the transcripts of that trial!

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Sounds like a bad parenting issue.

    but you're saying it's up to the parents, not the state.

    So if I think my 5 yr old is a decent driver, I should be able to let them drive.

    Your argument, not mine. I'm ok with the state discriminating based on the age of the driver. You don't want that.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    but you're saying it's up to the parents, not the state.

    So if I think my 5 yr old is a decent driver, I should be able to let them drive.

    Your argument, not mine. I'm ok with the state discriminating based on the age of the driver. You don't want that.
    I'm saying it is currently up to the parents and not the state? I do not believe that occurred.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    so what harm to society is there from two men or two women marrying? You have to prove harm to take someone's rights away
    Nope - I used the example of atheists suing to remove a cross in the middle of no where. It's not harming anyone yet it goes to court and is removed because a minority of people don't like it.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Sounds like a bad parenting issue.
    Just allowing parents to have control over their children's lives and make decisions for them is discrimination, since it puts one person in charge of another. It is absolutely viewed as discrimination that is good for society as a whole, but it is still discrimination.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Just allowing parents to have control over their children's lives and make decisions for them is discrimination, since it puts one person in charge of another. It is absolutely viewed as discrimination that is good for society as a whole, but it is still discrimination.
    I have no problem with private discrimination.

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    Re: Federal judge strikes down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    I'm saying it is currently up to the parents and not the state? I do not believe that occurred.
    You are against discrimination by the state. Currently states discriminated against kids by not letting them drive. Therefore, you are ok with 5 yr olds driving.

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