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Ex-CIA director: Snowden should be 'hanged' if convicted of treason

See the thing here is.....Putin told him he could stay. As long as he didn't release anything else from Russia showing his Anti Americanism. This isn't good enough for the Snowman. Plus he doesn't want Russia always watching him. Plus he hasn't figured out yet that no matter where he would go. He would be under watch for the rest of his life. So he wants to make the US pay for making his life difficult. Now once stepping into this area.....he no longer was about exposing the NSA and what they did. Its about him getting back at the US. Which does place our people at Risk out there even more than ever before.


Snowden to testify to panel of European Parliament

Snowden has agreed to testify, via teleconference, before a civil liberties committee of the European Parliament, sources in the Parliament say.

Some within the Parliament opposed the invitation, but the majority supported the idea, the sources said. The testimony may take place in January, they said.

It's unsure whether Snowden would testify live or would be pre-recorded, the sources said, adding that his testimony is expected to cover all aspects of NSA surveillance internationally.....snip~


Snowden's open letter offers to help Brazil look into NSA surveillance - CNN.com


130609164540-edward-snowden-guardian-video-tease.jpg



Soon it will be time for the Snowman to accept.....that hell on the earth. Cannot be stopped by freezing it over.
 
As a Senate candidate in 2003, Barack Obama called the PATRIOT Act "shoddy and dangerous." Once safely in power, Obama started demonstrating his remarkable capacity for "growing in office" -- expanding federal powers while piously moralizing about their potential abuse.

As a senator, he voted to reauthorize the surveillance law in 2006; and as president, signed another PATRIOT renewal from Europe via presidential autopen in 2011.

Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., has long warned of a "secret PATRIOT Act" -- a classified interpretation of the law that allows the administration to undertake massive data collection on American citizens.

Last week, we got a glimpse of what he meant, when a National Security Agency contractor revealed that the agency has assembled a database of at least seven years' worth of Verizon customers' call records -- a practice that apparently extends to other carriers.


http://washingtonexaminer.com/gene-healy-it-cant-happen-here-just-did/article/2531527
 
MMC said:
If you think Brazil only spied on our people in just their country.....then you are deceiving yourself.

Snowden has gone beyond pointing out what the NSA is doing wrong with its own Citizens.....2 wrongs don't make it Right.
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We must know, at the same time, that capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left such is the capability to monitor everything—telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn’t matter. There would be no place to hide.

If this government ever became a tyrant, if a dictator ever took charge in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee

This is no joking matter!! Bush joked about being a dictator and now many are calling Obama's, the imperial presidency.
 
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Montecresto said:
Not quite sure what you mean by that MMC? I'm certainly not interested in personal threats to NSA employees and their families. I want, no demand that our government listen to the people across the board that are raising hell about this and STOP the NSA as an agency from this bull****. I'm not afraid of the citizens (or the government for that matter) of Brazil, and DO NOT APPRECIATE the NSA's dragnet surveillance of their phones, e-mails and whatever else they're snooping on. That's just me man.

We are where we are today because nobody heeded senator Church's recommendations all those years ago!

Thirty years ago, on April 26, 1976, the United States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities, delivered its final report detailing the lawlessness of U.S. intelligence agencies and the need for Congress to reassert the Constitutional system of checks and balances to order to rein in the cloak-and-dagger excesses of the executive branch of the federal government.

The committee, mercifully referred to by the last name of its chair, U.S. Senator Frank Church, D-Idaho, produced fourteen reports on the formation of U.S. intelligence agencies, the manner in which they had and were continuing to operate, and the abuses of law and of power -- up to and including murder -- committed by these agencies in Chile, the Congo, Cuba, Vietnam and other nations that experienced the attention of U.S. authorities in the Cold War era.
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Oh did you view that, in such a way Monte? What courts and the Limelight aren't enough for you. Pics of their wives and daughters, friends, and co-workers wont make the All viewing eye? They wont be on every news channel out there. Open to subject and ridicule? Won't affect their lives at all huh? Well we can see how that could be viewed as personal threats to NSA employees and their families.....huh?

Perhaps people should redefine the Word Threat.....and all should be taught the clear meaning of it. Then none can become cornfuzzled.
 
MMC said:
Oh did you view that, in such a way Monte? What courts and the Limelight aren't enough for you. Pics of their wives and daughters, friends, and co-workers wont make the All viewing eye? They wont be on every news channel out there. Open to subject and ridicule? Won't affect their lives at all huh? Well we can see how that could be viewed as personal threats to NSA employees and their families.....huh?

Perhaps people should redefine the Word Threat.....and all should be taught the clear meaning of it. Then none can become cornfuzzled.
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Guess I'm cornfuzzled. What do you mean MMC?
 
Montecresto said:
Guess I'm cornfuzzled. What do you mean MMC?
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I guess so my brutha.....That's what was meant by life being made difficult for them.....then just think what any conviction means. 10 times worse for all.

Yet all of this.....has nothing to do with Snowden wheeling and dealing with other Foreign Countries. That is a separate issue and now crosses the line as well as endangers others lives.
 
cpwill said:
Snowden didn't "out" Obama. He "outed" our SIGINT capability. The Obama administration may have been harmed by his revelations, but their impact was on our security infrastructure, and ability to ensure that Presidents make decisions with the most information possible. The result of Snowden's actions are that the U.S. choices are constrained, and our President is less well served in attempting to make foreign policy.

I don't like the Presidents' foreign policy (inasmuch as I am able to discern one), and I think he's a naif. But I wouldn't want to reduce the effectiveness of the information flows to him in making that foreign policy; think how much worse he will be when he knows even less.

Snowden's actions weren't "cute" because they caused trouble for the "most transparent administration ever" any more than the John Walker Lindh's taking up arms against his countrymen was "cute" because it happened in the context of a President who ran foreswearing nation-building.
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I'm not going to defend my position with my usual ardor because my emotions are mixed.

I'm distressed with the sneakiness of the government in general and I'm stunned that Obama, who I confidently voted for in 2008, has been so furtive and obfuscational when I expected the exact opposite. So, while I don't subscribe to the Obama is evil notion, I'm exhibiting my inner mean streak by appreciating his embarrassment.

Now, that's not a nice way to feel and I'm a little embarrassed for myself. I'm an imperfect person. But Snowden has my sympathy, what can I do?


there is no such word as obfuscational™. Now there is.
 
MMC said:
I guess so my brutha.....That's what was meant by life being made difficult for them.....then just think what any conviction means. 10 times worse for all.

Yet all of this.....has nothing to do with Snowden wheeling and dealing with other Foreign Countries. That is a separate issue and now crosses the line as well as endangers others lives.
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It's never been about Snowden for me brutha. This has been about the NSA and Me, and I'm pissed. Tell you what MMC. Look at the link and read (if you skipped over it) what senator Church put in his report to congress, god damn it, he was speaking in the present tense of technological capabilities. There's NO excuse for what has transpired in the past 37 years. This is a direct result of failure and corruption on the part of those who had both the power and the authority to keep the NSA on the short leash and didn't as well as a heaping tablespoon of apathy on the part of the American public. Lets see now if Americans still know how to be Americans or whether we're going to scapegoat the NSA on the shoulders of Snowden and watch this WAY too powerful agency go on to choke the last breath out of American liberty!
 
specklebang said:
I'm not going to defend my position with my usual ardor because my emotions are mixed.

I'm distressed with the sneakiness of the government in general and I'm stunned that Obama, who I confidently voted for in 2008, has been so furtive and obfuscational when I expected the exact opposite. So, while I don't subscribe to the Obama is evil notion, I'm exhibiting my inner mean streak by appreciating his embarrassment.

Now, that's not a nice way to feel and I'm a little embarrassed for myself. I'm an imperfect person. But Snowden has my sympathy, what can I do?


there is no such word as obfuscational™. Now there is.
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My sentiments toward Obama in 08' as well. MANY Americans are having buyers remorse and are feeling betrayed. Well, that's because they have been. For me, Obama's comments about the emerging surveillance state both before he was senator, his comments on the subject while he was senator as well as while he was a candidate on the campaign trail gave me a (now obviously false) sense of confidence that we were going to see some big changes. Yeah, I was one of the guys that believed him. Not only was he lying through his teeth to ME about reforming it, it has become hugely worse under his watch and I'll stop talking right there so the SS doesn't come knocking on my door.
 
Montecresto said:
It's never been about Snowden for me brutha. This has been about the NSA and Me, and I'm pissed. Tell you what MMC. Look at the link and read (if you skipped over it) what senator Church put in his report to congress, god damn it, he was speaking in the present tense of technological capabilities. There's NO excuse for what has transpired in the past 37 years. This is a direct result of failure and corruption on the part of those who had both the power and the authority to keep the NSA on the short leash and didn't as well as a heaping tablespoon of apathy on the part of the American public. Lets see now if Americans still know how to be Americans or whether we're going to scapegoat the NSA on the shoulders of Snowden and watch this WAY too powerful agency go on to choke the last breath out of American liberty!
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Mornin' Monte. :2wave: I can understand the point with NASA and other Americans. But this doesn't give Snowden card blanche to wheel and deal with foreign countries and what we do.....when it comes to any of them.

No one is even saying that anything with the NSA should be overlooked and that there should be answers and consequences.

But this changes nothing about Snowden putting himself into the roll of traitor.
 
reinoe said:
There's a lot of people in the USA who are fine with the federal government engaging in unlimited spying on their citizens without cause. I bet that number coincides with the number of people who have never read 1984.
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I don’t see what people are that upset about. The IRS already knows almost every American’s financial status, banks report any large amount of cash withdrawn or deposited. With Obamacare government will know more and more about your health. Social Security Admin already does if you are drawing disability. Phone records are available from the phone company as to who you called and who called you. Use a cell phone, that goes over the air and can easily be picked up by anyone with just a little knowledge about electronics. Very easy to do. Criminal records are a matter of public record, even a private number or unlisted number can be had for a couple of dollars to one of these internet white pages snooper. Cookies and the like keep track exactly what you do on the internet. I could go on and on, but what I said above is just the tip of the iceberg.

Big brother has been here a very long time. Big brother is born of big government, a government that provides security to you in the form of programs. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare payments, insurance benefits, disability benefits, VA benefits, Subsidies for Obamacare and on and on. Why get upset over the NSA, we have already gave the government more than enough information for them to know all about us. This is the price we pay for security and government giving us that security. Remember the old slogan, “Those who choose security over liberty, will soon have neither. Think about it.

A government powerful enough to give us all these benefits, is also powerful enough to take them all away.
 
MMC said:
Mornin' Monte. :2wave: I can understand the point with NASA and other Americans. But this doesn't give Snowden card blanche to wheel and deal with foreign countries and what we do.....when it comes to any of them.

No one is even saying that anything with the NSA should be overlooked and that there should be answers and consequences.

But this changes nothing about Snowden putting himself into the roll of traitor.
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Good morning to you MMC. Obviously it's debatable whether or not Snowden is a "traitor" there's differences of opinion here as well as amongst people in professional and official positions across the country. For me the egregious sins of the NSA trump anything that Edward Snowden could do and I would hate to see the momentum against the NSA get lost on and redirected towards Edward Snowden.
 
This thread has me seriously considering throwing my cell phone away and having a land line installed. At the very least I should leave the cell at home or turn it off except for emergencies.

I may be harder to get a hold of in my undisclosed locations, but my peace of mind can be restored. I already use The Onion Router to make purchases or to spy on the government.

Spy vs. Spy, you spooks.

Snowden isn't going to be executed. Can you say martyr?
 
Montecresto said:
Good morning to you MMC. Obviously it's debatable whether or not Snowden is a "traitor" there's differences of opinion here as well as amongst people in professional and official positions across the country. For me the egregious sins of the NSA trump anything that Edward Snowden could do and I would hate to see the momentum against the NSA get lost on and redirected towards Edward Snowden.
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Even most of the US Armed Forces Intel consider it now treason......moreover he said the US is preventing him from speaking out. Nothing stopped him from Printing up a book. Which would have made a Number one Best Seller. As it would have been published. So on that front.....that is nothing more than excuse.

Now of course with what he releases. Could lead back to sources. Which then Puts some people at High risk. There is no getting round that point.
 
MMC said:
Even most of the US Armed Forces Intel consider it now treason......moreover he said the US is preventing him from speaking out. Nothing stopped him from Printing up a book. Which would have made a Number one Best Seller. As it would have been published. So on that front.....that is nothing more than excuse.

Now of course with what he releases. Could lead back to sources. Which then Puts some people at High risk. There is no getting round that point.
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Again MMC. My concern here is attention being drawn away from NSA and focused on Snowden. They would love nothing more. And, while I have no interest in anyone being in danger, for me, I want to see this NSA scandal come to a head and be TRULY dealt with, AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE HEALS OF THE CHURCH REPORT, and wasn't.
 
MMC said:
Even most of the US Armed Forces Intel consider it now treason......moreover he said the US is preventing him from speaking out. Nothing stopped him from Printing up a book. Which would have made a Number one Best Seller. As it would have been published. So on that front.....that is nothing more than excuse.

Now of course with what he releases. Could lead back to sources. Which then Puts some people at High risk. There is no getting round that point.
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Morning MMC, yes close to all military types both active and civilian consider what Snowden did as treasonous. There is really no debate among them. Americans for the most party have been choosing security over liberty ever since FDR and this is just another price we have to pay for that security. The IRS knows pretty much what it wants about our financial status and transactions. Obamacare is providing the government with all our health problems, Phone companies know who we call and who calls us and is readily available to any one with a couple of dollars for one of these internet companies. Criminal records are a mater of public record, cash deposits and withdrawals over a certain amount is reported to the government by banks, Cookies on the internet keep track of our habits while we are on it along with other types of trackers.

Cell phones are over the air devices and anyone with a bit of electronic knowledge can easily pick them up and know what you are saying. All of this is the price we pay for big government, for the benefits and programs big government provides. For the security we know today and if we want more, the government will know more and more about us as a result. It is the age we live in.

To stop all of this means to give up all these programs and Americans will not stand for that. So privacy is really a non-issue when it comes to benefits and government control of our daily lives. One walks hand in hand with the other. NSA spying, no big deal. All that info is easily available by other means.
 
NSA spying "no big deal". DEAR LORD, the Church committees report to congress, no big deal.
 
Perotista said:
Morning MMC, yes close to all military types both active and civilian consider what Snowden did as treasonous. There is really no debate among them. Americans for the most party have been choosing security over liberty ever since FDR and this is just another price we have to pay for that security. The IRS knows pretty much what it wants about our financial status and transactions. Obamacare is providing the government with all our health problems, Phone companies know who we call and who calls us and is readily available to any one with a couple of dollars for one of these internet companies. Criminal records are a mater of public record, cash deposits and withdrawals over a certain amount is reported to the government by banks, Cookies on the internet keep track of our habits while we are on it along with other types of trackers.

Cell phones are over the air devices and anyone with a bit of electronic knowledge can easily pick them up and know what you are saying. All of this is the price we pay for big government, for the benefits and programs big government provides. For the security we know today and if we want more, the government will know more and more about us as a result. It is the age we live in.

To stop all of this means to give up all these programs and Americans will not stand for that. So privacy is really a non-issue when it comes to benefits and government control of our daily lives. One walks hand in hand with the other. NSA spying, no big deal. All that info is easily available by other means.
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Mornin Pero. :2wave: Yeah I don't think anyone will be dropping the NSA issue. Now it will end up going in front of the SCOTUS and they will make a decision. Already recommendations are being made. I mentioned the strategy that has to be taken.....course my concern would also be with who is running the NSA.
 
MMC said:
Mornin Pero. :2wave: Yeah I don't think anyone will be dropping the NSA issue. Now it will end up going in front of the SCOTUS and they will make a decision. Already recommendations are being made. I mentioned the strategy that has to be taken.....course my concern would also be with who is running the NSA.
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As much stuff the government has on each individual, does the NSA keeping track of phone numbers really mean much of anything? Think of how much information we voluntarily give to the government for this or that program or benefit. To prevent fraud and abuses to these programs and benefits means the government must know more and more about you. The vast majority of people in America would be shocked to find out exactly how much the government knows about each individual and that knowledge is growing by leaps and bounds.

As I said before, it is all part of big government, a growing big government that people want to take care of them. It was the peoples choice, they chose 1984 in order to feel safe and secure in their everyday life. What is the difference if the agency is NSA, FBI, IRS, HHS, Social Security Bureau, Treasury, INS, BTF and perhaps hundreds more. All these people have something on you and gathered information on you at sometime or another. It was our choice to feel secure in our own lives.

If this bothers some people, then they ought to start thinking about shrinking government and all the programs and benefits that is heaped upon them by that government.
 
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Montecresto said:
Never cared a lot for Woolsey anyway, but he's way out their. Typical haute attitude of intelligence guys.


WASHINGTON – Former CIA Director James Woolsey had harsh words Tuesday for anyone thinking about giving Edward Snowden amnesty, and argued the NSA leaker should be “hanged” if he’s ever tried and convicted of treason.

Woolsey, along with former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Hugh Shelton, spoke Tuesday in Washington in an interview with Fox News.

“I think giving him amnesty is idiotic,” Woolsey said. “He should be prosecuted for treason.
If convicted by a jury of his peers, he should be hanged by his neck until he is dead."
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Ex-CIA director: Snowden should be
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I'd be interested to hear what Woolsey thinks should be done to those people in the NSA who have been unconstitutionally spying on just about every American.

Keeping in mind that almost none of those Americans were ever a threat to the USA and the NSA has wasted a lot of time and U.S. taxpayer's money doing this.
 
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