Christianity beginning 'to disappear' in its birthplace, warns Prince of Wales

[j-mac]

Christianity is beginning “to disappear” in its own birthplace after 2,000 years because of a wave of “organised persecution” across the Middle East, the Prince of Wales has warned.
In an impassioned intervention, he said that the world is in danger of losing something “irreplaceably precious” with communities tracing their history back to the time of Jesus now under threat from fundamentalist Islamist militants.

snip

And the Prince, a long-standing advocate of dialogue between religions, voiced personal dismay at seeing his work over the last 20 years to “build bridges and dispel ignorance” being deliberately destroyed by those attempting to exploit the Arab Spring for their own ends.

snip

“It seems to me that we cannot ignore the fact that Christians in the Middle East are increasingly being deliberately targeted by fundamentalist Islamist militants.”

Christianity beginning 'to disappear' in its birthplace, warns Prince of Wales - Telegraph

Ok, so while we in this country moan and whine when we see a nativity scene in someones front yard, or a Memorial cross on a hill that has been there for 100 years in one form or another, Christians in the middle east are being displaced, murdered, and driven out....Where's the outrage about that? Or maybe those that attack Christianity here in this country, claiming the rights of the minority, at the expense of tyranny over the majority, agree that these Christians should be persecuted....

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I think you would find that those that are accused of being at war with Christianity in the US were generally against the invasion of Iraq, which turned out to be a bad thing for Iraqi Christians, or the support of Syrian rebels. which again has turned out to be bad for Syrian Christians.

Last but not least, since that group of people support minority rights, and Christians are a minority religion in the ME, they would be supportive of the Christian groups in the ME, wanting them to have the same rights to practice their religion or lack there off as the dominate religious group. Or in general that religion and politics should not mix as to allow religious freedom for all

 

[j-mac]

I think you would find that those that are accused of being at war with Christianity in the US were generally against the invasion of Iraq, which turned out to be a bad thing for Iraqi Christians, or the support of Syrian rebels. which again has turned out to be bad for Syrian Christians.

Mornin' LT...I see, so it's Bush's fault? Is that right? :roll:

Last but not least, since that group of people support minority rights, and Christians are a minority religion in the ME, they would be supportive of the Christian groups in the ME, wanting them to have the same rights to practice their religion or lack there off as the dominate religious group. Or in general that religion and politics should not mix as to allow religious freedom for all

I think you are missing the point....Christianity is being exterminated from its birthplace....And all you can muster is a passing 'eh, separation of Church and state' or 'It's Bush's fault'???? That is truly disappointing.

 

[The German]

There is outrage. People simply dont care.

And in some places it is aloust to late to do anything.

Iraq for example has almoust successfully driven all christians out of it`s country.

 

[X Factor]

Ok, so while we in this country moan and whine when we see a nativity scene in someones front yard, or a Memorial cross on a hill that has been there for 100 years in one form or another, Christians in the middle east are being displaced, murdered, and driven out....Where's the outrage about that? Or maybe those that attack Christianity here in this country, claiming the rights of the minority, at the expense of tyranny over the majority, agree that these Christians should be persecuted....

This is why Christians in the US (myself included) need to stop feeling defensive and persecuted in the US. I definitely don't agree that every religious symbol should be removed from public view but considering the depth of real persecution our Christian breathren face in other parts of the world, we need to maintain some perspective.

 

[Slyfox696]

It amazes me how little some Christians believe in their own religion. If you're secure in your faith, why should you care if Christianity is being overtaken in the Middle East?

I consider myself a Christian, but unlike so many other Christians, I don't have to rely on others to be secure in my faith. I have my relationship with God, and what other people believe has no effect on what I believe. It never ceases to amaze me how so many Christians are so scared of being wrong, they need the support of others to be right.

 

[The German]

It amazes me how little some Christians believe in their own religion. If you're secure in your faith, why should you care if Christianity is being overtaken in the Middle East?

It is not about something being overtaken.

The Christians in Iraq were driven out of their country through bomings, kidnapings and murders. The Christians in Egypt have suffered for generations under institutionalised discrimination and repeating terror attacks. And at the middle eastern borders with Black Africa, secterian conflict has exists for almoust 1200 years. Only a few countries in the middle east such as Turkey, Israel, Jordania and Tunisia actualy undertake messures to secure that religious minority.

So it is not some silly question of faith but a question of human rights.

But I doubt that the OP sees it this way. The OP is probably evangelical, so he probably wouldnt want much to do with the Coptic christians of the middle east whos traditions are more releated to eastern European orthodoxy than any form of protestantism. He is merely using a tragedy for a conservative talkingpoint.

And I also believe that OP wouldnt speak out and defend the rights of muslims who are persecuted in India, Myanmar and Central Africa. Or any other persecuted religious minority that is not christian.

 

[iliveonramen]

Ok, so while we in this country moan and whine when we see a nativity scene in someones front yard, or a Memorial cross on a hill that has been there for 100 years in one form or another, Christians in the middle east are being displaced, murdered, and driven out....Where's the outrage about that? Or maybe those that attack Christianity here in this country, claiming the rights of the minority, at the expense of tyranny over the majority, agree that these Christians should be persecuted....

Actually no one cares if there's a nativity scene or memorial cross in someone's front yard...it's displaying it on public land that is the issue.

I'm not sure where you are going with the second part. Different minority groups are attacked every day in other countries. Advocacy groups try to raise awareness. Those advocacy groups are probably upset as well that there isn't sufficient outrage at whatever their cause is.

You seem to be making a convoluted argument that if you're not sufficiently outraged you condone an activity?

 

[X Factor]

Actually no one cares if there's a nativity scene or memorial cross in someone's front yard...it's displaying it on public land that is the issue.

I'm not sure where you are going with the second part. Different minority groups are attacked every day in other countries. Advocacy groups try to raise awareness. Those advocacy groups are probably upset as well that there isn't sufficient outrage at whatever their cause is.

You seem to be making a convoluted argument that if you're not sufficiently outraged you condone an activity?

Sometimes what you don't say can speak just as loudly as what you do.

 

[Slyfox696]

It is not about something being overtaken.

Uhh, the Prince of Wales kind of said it was...

So it is not some silly question of faith but a question of human rights.

No, it SHOULD be a question of human rights, but it's not. It's about Christians.

And I also believe that OP wouldnt speak out and defend the rights of muslims who are persecuted in India, Myanmar and Central Africa. Or any other persecuted religious minority that is not christian.

Exactly. It SHOULD be about human rights of everyone, regardless of their religion. We shouldn't care Christians are being killed, we should care people are being killed. But this thread, referencing the Prince of Wales, has made it about Christians, which to me speaks of a certain insecurity so many Christians have.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It amazes me how little some Christians believe in their own religion. If you're secure in your faith, why should you care if Christianity is being overtaken in the Middle East?

I consider myself a Christian, but unlike so many other Christians, I don't have to rely on others to be secure in my faith. I have my relationship with God, and what other people believe has no effect on what I believe. It never ceases to amaze me how so many Christians are so scared of being wrong, they need the support of others to be right.

That's the attitude! Those black folks in the south should have just sucked it up and stuck to their faith. It is just too bad that others would spit on them, deny them human dignity and occasionally hang, beat or burn a few of them. Christians must simply accept their lot in life and turn the other cheek.

 

[notquiteright]

Mornin' LT...I see, so it's Bush's fault? Is that right? I think you are missing the point....Christianity is being exterminated from its birthplace....And all you can muster is a passing 'eh, separation of Church and state' or 'It's Bush's fault'???? That is truly disappointing.

So it doesn't matter WHY, just that it is... THAT is disappointing... :doh

Seems to me every time the West uses military might in what they call the Middle East the Christians suffer- the Muslims were fairly tolerant of 'people of the book' until the Crusades. Seems folks got along well enough until the West took a slice out for the Jews THEY made to suffer in Europe. Propping up petty tyrants for resources and invading those who buck up against the 'world order' the West established seems to cause a backlash...

But hey, let's ignore all that and just whine some about crosses on public lands and such... :roll:

 

[American]

It amazes me how little some Christians believe in their own religion. If you're secure in your faith, why should you care if Christianity is being overtaken in the Middle East?

I consider myself a Christian, but unlike so many other Christians, I don't have to rely on others to be secure in my faith. I have my relationship with God, and what other people believe has no effect on what I believe. It never ceases to amaze me how so many Christians are so scared of being wrong, they need the support of others to be right.

The problem in the US is the unequal treatment that Christianity gets compared to Islam. Try stopping a Muslim from praying and see what happens. You get 1000's rioting in the streets all over the world. If you do anything to offend Muslims, you get "Death to America". So people just backoff and leave Muslims alone.

 

[PeteEU]

Hmm birthplace of Christianity is in modern day Israel, not Iraq, Egypt and so on. Guess this is just another "lets bash Muslims" thread.

 

[Gardener]

I reject totalitarianism, so I reject BOTH the persecution of Christians by Islamists in the middle east and the attempts by militant Christians in this country to force religion into secular life.

 

[ecofarm]

I smell a new Saint: the Prince of Wails.

 

[DDD]

Well that is good. Hopefully the other religions would follow the same path.

 

[Slyfox696]

That's the attitude! Those black folks in the south should have just sucked it up and stuck to their faith. It is just too bad that others would spit on them, deny them human dignity and occasionally hang, beat or burn a few of them. Christians must simply accept their lot in life and turn the other cheek.

I understand what you're trying to say. Hopefully you'll read my second post in this thread and understand what I was trying to say.

The problem in the US is the unequal treatment that Christianity gets compared to Islam.

:lamo

Right.

Try stopping a Muslim from praying and see what happens. You get 1000's rioting in the streets all over the world. If you do anything to offend Muslims, you get "Death to America". So people just backoff and leave Muslims alone.

It's comments like this which make it hard for people in the US to take Christians seriously.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Uhh, the Prince of Wales kind of said it was...

No, it SHOULD be a question of human rights, but it's not. It's about Christians.

Exactly. It SHOULD be about human rights of everyone, regardless of their religion. We shouldn't care Christians are being killed, we should care people are being killed. But this thread, referencing the Prince of Wales, has made it about Christians, which to me speaks of a certain insecurity so many Christians have.

I see. One should not attempt to identify a specific group (e.g. women, blacks, Christians, Muslims or Jews) they should instead speak of general human rights, not using such specific narrow examples. Does that mean that apartheid should not specifically be protested, but only human rights in general?

 

[Slyfox696]

I see. One should not attempt to identify a specific group (e.g. women, blacks, Christians, Muslims or Jews) they should instead speak of general human rights, not using such specific narrow examples. Does that mean that apartheid should not specifically be protested, but only human rights in general?

It means there is absolutely nothing wrong with being upset with the suffering and persecution of people, but when one only cares because of a certain criteria the people possess, then it's hard for me to see sincerity, and not selfishness or insecurity, in one's words.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It means there is absolutely nothing wrong with being upset with the suffering and persecution of people, but when one only cares because of a certain criteria the people possess, then it's hard for me to see sincerity, and not selfishness or insecurity, in one's words.

Sort of like Obama expressing concern for Trayvon since he looked just like his own son would. Many plea for an end to civil/human rights from specific forms of bigotry, not to demean those others subjected to abuse, but to call attention to specific groups being targeted for special attention. I doubt that he feels that the abuse of rights is OK for non-Christians, but intended to highlight the special hatred shown toward Christians. Just a guess, of course, you are probably right - surly he thinks it is just peachy to beat/stone women for disobedience, prevent women from driving or being educated and believes that women should never be seen in public.

 

[Northern Light]

Maybe it's because ever since the "war on terror" began, American evangelical missionaries have flooded the middle east, often manipulatively, which is a classical leftover of colonialism. There were plenty of stories coming out of Afghanistan about missionaries dressed in burquas pretending to be Muslims who had converted to Christianity, when really they were white Americans. In Afghanistan after the media lockdown on the press began, evangelicals were still given more free access than even our journalists. Once Amnesty International started reporting on the intensive proselytizing and seizing of children by these religious fundamentalists, the U.S. started cracking down, but it has never been complete.

In places that are more lawless like Uganda, missionaries have been seizing social and political power, mostly by preying on local ignorance, to implement their evangelical vision of the world because their crackpot ideology will never be accepted in the United States and the rest of the western world. Essentially in every country we invade, the evangelicals follow. They may not have our government endorsement but they certainly don't have its condemnation.

The Middle East has felt invaded by us not only politically but ideologically. And people wonder why Christians aren't safe there anymore? The U.S. war machine comes part and parcel with religious zealotry most of the time. This particular brand of Christian relies on war to carve new ideological pathways into regions that would normally be deaf to its message. And once there, these zealots use all manner of dirty tactics which offend local culture and beliefs.

The Christians who were already there were not the problem. It is the radical American Christians who turned the region against Christianity in general. In some places the balance was a very delicate one to begin with, but these zealots tipped the scales.

 

[Slyfox696]

Sort of like Obama expressing concern for Trayvon since he looked just like his own son would.

That's not what Obama said, nor is it really even close to what he said. Obama expressed concern that any child would be killed, because as a parent, he understands what children mean. Significant difference.

Obama On Trayvon Martin Case: 'If I Had A Son, He'd Look Like Trayvon'

Many plea for an end to civil/human rights from specific forms of bigotry, not to demean those others subjected to abuse, but to call attention to specific groups being targeted for special attention. I doubt that he feels that the abuse of rights is OK for non-Christians, but intended to highlight the special hatred shown toward Christians.

But only because he (threadstarter and prince) are Christian, would be my guess.

 

[X Factor]

Uhh, the Prince of Wales kind of said it was...

No, it SHOULD be a question of human rights, but it's not. It's about Christians.

Christians aren't human?

Exactly. It SHOULD be about human rights of everyone, regardless of their religion. We shouldn't care Christians are being killed, we should care people are being killed. But this thread, referencing the Prince of Wales, has made it about Christians, which to me speaks of a certain insecurity so many Christians have.

We shouldn't care about Christians being killed and imprisoned for being Christian?

It really shouldn't surprise me what people say anymore, but sometimes it still does.

 

[Slyfox696]

Christians aren't human?



We shouldn't care about Christians being killed and imprisoned for being Christian?

Perhaps you should read the entire thread first, or at least my posts in the thread.

It really shouldn't surprise me what people say anymore, but sometimes it still does.

It shouldn't surprise me people post despite lacking a fundamental understanding is being said, but sometimes it still does.