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Thread: WaPo: Waiting for the 8th

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    Re: WaPo: Waiting for the 8th

    "She chose not to carry the Electronic Benefit Transfer (EBT) card in her wallet, believing from personal experience that people who entered into the system tended to rely on it forever. 'I'm not wanting to sign over my independence for good,' she said." ["She" refers to Tiara, the daughter.]

    Smart girl, she wants to maintain her independence.


    "Raphael obsessed over the future of the food stamp program in part because she herself had become a neighborhood safety net, regularly feeding a group of castoffs who called her 'mom.' There were her own children at home: ages 11, 13, 15, 17 and 22, plus a 25-year-old living in Maryland."

    Now, I'm all for compassion and helping people out, but you can't really do that when 1) You are relying on other people's money to help you and 2) You can barely feed yourself.


    "You remember your cousin Anthony?" Raphael asked one day. "He took that class, couldn't fry an egg, and he came out making $13 an hour cooking for the embassies."

    "Who cares about embassies?" Tiara said.

    "Thirteen an hour. You care about that?"

    "No matter how many certificates I get, nobody's hiring. What's the point? I'm tired of trying for these things."
    Anthony's experience should be more than enough to get her to want to go to those cooking classes and $13/hr is pretty good.

    ""Thank you, Jesus!" Raphael said on the morning of the 8th, back in the aisles of Save a Lot to purchase her family's groceries for the month, pushing two carts that creaked under the weight of 40 pounds of meat, 12 boxes of cereal, 11 packages of cheese and 75 bottles of juice."

    You don't need the juice, just get water. The cereal is also a joke as half the bag is empty. Get rice and beans, that's cheap and will fill you up.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: WaPo: Waiting for the 8th

    My honest response to this....

    It further degrades my hope for people and for this country in general. It greatly makes me question the principles and views I hold dear. It causes emotion to smack into logic and cold hard reality. It furthers my thought that the continual move away from a Freedom rsetricting society wrongfully crushing individualism and personal choice has created a soceity of nacissists and irresponsible people. That we are moving every day further and further to a situation where we devour ourselves out of the notion of "Kindness" and "caring" or we descend into a realm of authoritarianism in a backwards effort to save society; essentially, two horrible options. Why do I feel we're stuck with those options? Because the third option...SOCIETY correcting itself as a whole...seems to be an impossability.

    I understand Dana's point in terms of the "savagery" of letting people, including children, starve. At the same time, so often we must avoid such "savageries" because of actions and choices made by people that are given less and less negative reenforcement every year. The welfare state will always grow, the costs will always sore, and this just keeps recycling as we see with this woman's mother and now herself.

    The scary thing is that this makes me think that one way or another we're going to end up eventually moving into an athoratative situation...the question simply comes down to whether or not it's done in the name of "Kindness" or in the name of correction. The only way to continue to prevent being "savages" is to take more and more money, to put more and more regulation, to use the force of government more and more to redistribute the wealth in the country. In the name of "kindness" we will bleed our wealth dry, we'll bleed our economy dry, and we'll bleed our freedoms dry bringing us more and more equal as more and more people fall into the "safety net" that is more apt to be called a safety prison. On the flip side, to try and actually fix what ailes society would require savagery and wrongful removal of freedoms on the part of the government....pushing back throug the power of state against the poor habits and choices within society. However, at least in this case, there is a CHANCE that the illness is cured and forward movement can be made again. But the question at that point would be is it worth moving forward.

    What does stories like this make me think? What do responses from even self proclaimed "conservatives" calling for more nad more welfare make me feel? Simple.

    I feel like we're ready to follow Rome.

    We're eating ourselves from the inside and will continue. Stories like these, despite my attempts for optimism and measured thoughts, makes me feel like we're not going to have a United States in the same spirit of what I've known it to be while growing up. That, at best, it will still exist in name. But ultimately I beleve we are going to eat ourselves from the inside in the name of "kindness", "individualism", and a sense of "Whatever, I'll do what I want".

    We have created a society and culture destined to fail.

  3. #33
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    Re: WaPo: Waiting for the 8th

    The problem with authoritative governments is that they eventually become totalitarian, no matter the reason be it kindness or power. The article didn't make me question my views, it reinforced them. It shows that a dependent society where government welfare keeps people dependent, accepts their bad decisions and does not educate them properly on how to excel past their hardships means yes, society is well down the road of best intentions. Until our educational system and welfare systems are changed, we are destined to fail. The question is, can anything stop that failure - is there any hope at all? Many thought that hope was personified in our President's speeches in 2008; reality however has set in.

    Perhaps we cannot save our country and our society without it failing. Perhaps failure is required - let's just hope we can survive the failure, learn from those mistakes and rebuild. If anyone can do it, American's can.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: WaPo: Waiting for the 8th

    The one sentence of hope in the entire article: " 'I'm not wanting to sign over my independence for good,' she said." This little girl understands the real solution to the problem...don't be the problem.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: WaPo: Waiting for the 8th

    How about the title "Taking Away Food Stamps They Rely On."

    People shouldn't be relying on government..... Do people rely on their parents until they're 18 then rely on the government er taxpayer dole after that?

    Why bother even bettering yourself when the government will just take care of you?

    We should have temporary assistance programs - not a welfare state.

    Now Shelia Jackson (D) Texas and Kristian Ball (TV personality moron) are calling for universal welfare for everyone..........

    Shelia Jackson thinks that "we need to give unemployment benefits to everyone who has a job" - meanwhile millions who don't have a job have been cut off - and have been for quite some time. Anyone remember the 99'ers??

    Of course democrats get bent when others point out that they're basically pseudo-socialists - which is absolute fact considering they advocate government welfare dependence..

    This is only the tip of the iceberg tho...

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    Re: WaPo: Waiting for the 8th

    60 years ago, it was a source of shame to be in the dole. This was politically detrimental for the progressive cause. Now, there is no shame? Pride, entitled attitudes prevail. That is source of the problem.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: WaPo: Waiting for the 8th

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I think the work requirement should be replaced with an educational/job training requirement. The only thing that will fix poverty is education.
    Certainly sounds good in principle. However, the work strategies and the education strategies are effective only with those who can cooperate. Most people, other than the disabled or elderly don't spend too long in these bad situations. If they have any intelligence, they pick themselves up and I, for one, am thrilled to lend a helping hand, whether it's rehab, make-work or education. I've seen this with my own 3 eyes.

    But there are some people who simply don't have the intellectual processing power to do even basics like get a job and keep the job. Even they have to eat. It sounds terrible to accept there will be a small percentage of free riders but I assure you this is not the lifestyle most of us would choose. Even the "totl losers" must be fed and the idea that we can't "afford it" is simply not true. We can and shjould afford it - there are worse ways to spend resources than to keep your own citizens with lifes basics.

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    Re: WaPo: Waiting for the 8th

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Realistically, this may not be a fixable problem. In the age of robots and globalization, lower end jobs will not be returning to America. We've actually had growth in manufacturing but a great deal of our products are built by machines. To run these machines you must have enough education to manage them correctly. So, these are good jobs but they aren't available to a 20-something with a GED.

    So, we will have a pool of people at the bottom. Some will have had a temporary disruption and they'll bounce back. Some will never leave their circumstances. As one of the worlds largest agricultural countries, that pays billions to certain beloved corporations to NOT grow food, I don't think we have any food shortages coming up.

    Some on assistance will manage their tiny income wisely and get by. Some will squander it on dope. Hopefully, they'll remember to buy junior some oatmeal. SNAP is probably the LEAST troubling welfare program. Even useless people must be fed. Why resent something that basic?
    A huge step in providing more options for people is not having kids until you have established yourself in a job, skill, career, etc. That doesnt apply to people who fall on hard times after that, but I have no idea why people subject themselves to the added difficulty of providing for kids on little or no income. I feel they should be held accountable for such carelessness or inconsideration. But once they have the kids, those are their leverage for an unending stream of govt assistance. I think more public $$ should be spent on daycare and job training and serious efforts to *ensure* that they are used by people on public assistance.

    And there are some of those programs and incentives, however not enough and no one is ever completely cut off. They say there are limits, but there's always another program, or always another scam and in the long run 'but the children will suffer!' always works. My aunt used to run a computer training program for the unemployed in NJ...they were (mostly) women on welfare that *had* to go to the program in order to get their benefits. My aunt said they were super smart, had no trouble with the coursework, but instead, many chose to figure out ways to avoid the classes and still retain their benefits. I have a friend in Milwaukee working for the city in social services....she deals with these issues every day.

    We just continue to perpetuate failure....we are not 'helping' future generations growing up in these conditions.

    /rant
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: WaPo: Waiting for the 8th

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Certainly sounds good in principle. However, the work strategies and the education strategies are effective only with those who can cooperate. Most people, other than the disabled or elderly don't spend too long in these bad situations. If they have any intelligence, they pick themselves up and I, for one, am thrilled to lend a helping hand, whether it's rehab, make-work or education. I've seen this with my own 3 eyes.

    But there are some people who simply don't have the intellectual processing power to do even basics like get a job and keep the job. Even they have to eat. It sounds terrible to accept there will be a small percentage of free riders but I assure you this is not the lifestyle most of us would choose. Even the "totl losers" must be fed and the idea that we can't "afford it" is simply not true. We can and shjould afford it - there are worse ways to spend resources than to keep your own citizens with lifes basics.
    IMO, the public assistance programs are meant for those....those that are incapable OR short term.

    But there is a systemic cycle here, endemic throughout the US, of people who choose to rely on it long term or permanently and even develop strategies to do so. They are not a minority, they are not "a small percentage of free riders." If we could enable those people to be successful on their own (whether they like it or not), then there would be more left for those truly in need. But these others are taking advantage of every working person and the families they support.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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