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Ap survey: Us income gap is holding back economy

Goshin said:
Are you keeping up with who you're talking to? I never quoted the commie manifesto, nor defined anything.
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for sure, and that seems to be the alternative to a market driven wage you reject
 
TurtleDude said:
for sure, and that seems to be the alternative to a market driven wage you reject
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Ok. So anyone who suggests that maybe just MAYBE a little adjustment might be called for, that just POSSIBLY there might be room for some improvement over cut-throat lassiez-faire free market operation absolutely MUST be calling for full-on communism, right?


Geeze Turtle. :roll:
 
Goshin said:
Ok. So anyone who suggests that maybe just MAYBE a little adjustment might be called for, that just POSSIBLY there might be room for some improvement over cut-throat lassiez-faire free market operation absolutely MUST be calling for full-on communism, right?


Geeze Turtle. :roll:
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you open the door to such subjective BS you open the door.

and while you might not be-you have been around the gun argument enough to know that the extremists will support each incremental step.
 
Lutherf said:
Nope. We haven't moved off that much if at all.

What we are running into is either an unwillingness or an inability of people to make the necessary moves to get themselves back into a productive position. That also explains the change in your EPI quote.

If your job used to be "assembly technician" and 10 years ago a robot took your job that sucks but it doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't retrain into another position.
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In part robots have not overtook a lot of jobs here in the USA. For the most part we still have assembly line working jobs, unless they have been offshored.
 
TurtleDude said:
you open the door to such subjective BS you open the door.

and while you might not be-you have been around the gun argument enough to know that the extremists will support each incremental step.
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Just because there are extremists on both sides, doesn't mean that a reasonable middle ground can't exist.

People working full time doing jobs other people want them to do ought to make a reasonable wage... not brain-surgeon wage, but by Gawd somebody wants them to do that job instead of doing it themselves, and someone working and doing the best they can shouldn't go without a decent standard of living.

Oh hell nevermind, Turtle... I've never seen any sign that you have the slightest idea what the lives of blue-collar working folk are like, and I'm too tired to make another vain effort to enlighten you about it.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
In part robots have not overtook a lot of jobs here in the USA. For the most part we still have assembly line working jobs, unless they have been offshored.
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Yes, they are available, but there is more competition for them. I would suggest an all out assault on energy production to utilize the excess labor...
 
Goshin said:
Just because there are extremists on both sides, doesn't mean that a reasonable middle ground can't exist.

People working full time doing jobs other people want them to do ought to make a reasonable wage... not brain-surgeon wage, but by Gawd somebody wants them to do that job instead of doing it themselves, and someone working and doing the best they can shouldn't go without a decent standard of living.

Oh hell nevermind, Turtle... I've never seen any sign that you have the slightest idea what the lives of blue-collar working folk are like, and I'm too tired to make another vain effort to enlighten you about it.
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the working class hero crap doesn't work with me. I have a degree in labor relations and if people want to stay blue collar so be it. But I tire of people claiming someone ought to be paid more than their market worth
 
apdst said:
We will be, if we do what you suggest. It'll close the gap alright...everybody will be poor. (This is where you usually come up with another insult)
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Sooo... Pretty much every single industrialized country on the face of this planet is going to turn up like the USSR? Why? Because they have more progressive system of taxation and generally a bigger welfare state than ours?
 
I don't even begin to care what most economists think.

Most economists are macroeconomic ignoramuses - they completely missed the dot.com crash and the housing bubble/crash. No reason to think they will suddenly find some economic common sense now.


Do I doubt that the income gap is growing - nope.

But with 'too big to fail', artificially low interest rates (which helps banks and their 'carry' trade with the Fed AND hurts those on fixed incomes hugely), massive QE (which helps the rich by indirectly pumping money into the stock market), increasing defence budgets which help no one but the military industrial complex and huge fiscal deficits funding massive government handout programs (at the cost of higher taxes); it's no wonder the wealth gap is growing.


You want to reduce the gap? Stop bailing out the big corporations (and their rich shareholders), stop allowing the Fed to artificially inflate the stock market (which benefits the rich shareholders) and allow interest rates to rise to their 'natural' levels (which will help those on fixed incomes get something for all their years of savings).

That would be a start.
 
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TheDemSocialist said:
Wages not being kept up with inflation, vast inequality.
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actually we have a new paradigm. It used to be big dumb strong guys could make good livings on factory lines like GM without much intellectual skills. information is now the stock in trade. Those who cannot keep up with the changing parameters are falling behind since muscle no longer earns big bucks (unless its on the gridiron, or in the ring etc)

people who failed to invest in the new skill set are falling behind.
 
Trend? You were quoting an AP survey not me. What trend! What surveys document tends? And regardless of said trend just what redistribution wonder is ofailure care? Let's see we have exempt, elites, and politicos all keeping what they have so it's just a redistribution from the middle to the poor....nice job. But hey you did NAIL one fact! That is the shrinking middle class isn't getting rich! And we all KNOW why, just too bad you can't figure it out.


TheDemSocialist said:
So a trend that has been going on since the 80's is the ACA's fault? Get real man.
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TurtleDude said:
actually we have a new paradigm. It used to be big dumb strong guys could make good livings on factory lines like GM without much intellectual skills. information is now the stock in trade. Those who cannot keep up with the changing parameters are falling behind since muscle no longer earns big bucks (unless its on the gridiron, or in the ring etc)

people who failed to invest in the new skill set are falling behind.
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So now its people are getting stronger a more stupid?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
So now its people are getting stronger a more stupid?
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I think you missed the entire point

people didn't have to be well educated 50 years ago to make good money. Factory jobs paid well for strong workers who didn't have hi-tech education

That is no longer true
 
TheDemSocialist said:
What happened during the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's? Had much of the same programs around and was not even close to this giant income gap.
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Yup. And the middle class was poorer then, too. OP Premise Fail. :)
 
CalGun said:
Trend? You were quoting an AP survey not me. What trend! What surveys document tends? And regardless of said trend just what redistribution wonder is ofailure care? Let's see we have exempt, elites, and politicos all keeping what they have so it's just a redistribution from the middle to the poor....nice job. But hey you did NAIL one fact! That is the shrinking middle class isn't getting rich! And we all KNOW why, just too bad you can't figure it out.
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Im not talking about the survery. Im talking about the wealth history of this country.
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TheDemSocialist said:
:lamo
I think your forgetting a little thing called inflation.
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you whine about inflation but want the minimum wage to go up

serious disconnect there dude
 
TurtleDude said:
I think you missed the entire point

people didn't have to be well educated 50 years ago to make good money. Factory jobs paid well for strong workers who didn't have hi-tech education

That is no longer true
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So if i wanted to go work at the Ford plant in my hometown i would have to get a college degree? I can tell you the opposite is true.... Trust me.
 
There will come a point where the 1% will control so much wealth they will have no choice but to re-distribute it if they want to continue to prosper. Eventually the lower classes will run out of the money needed to drive these corporate profits. When the 1% realize this, we will finally be able to fix the economy. No government intervention can fix this, it will only hurt the effort.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
So if i wanted to go work at the Ford plant in my hometown i would have to get a college degree? I can tell you the opposite is true.... Trust me.
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If you want to make the wages (in terms of real dollars) that the hs graduates made in the 50s at GM Or FORD, you better be a pretty good programmer etc
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Wages not being kept up with inflation,
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That is incorrect. Wages for all quintiles have advanced past inflation, though agreeably much faster for knowledge workers.
 
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