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Thread: North America to Drown in Oil as Mexico Ends Monopoly

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    Re: North America to Drown in Oil as Mexico Ends Monopoly

    I think the biggest misconception is that just because more oil becomes available to pump out of the ground that it will make it to market in such a way to drive down U.S. gas prices.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: North America to Drown in Oil as Mexico Ends Monopoly

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    So you want to make energy more expensive across the board. Let's review what the effects of that would be. First, you'd be passing on higher electricity and transportation bills onto the average American consumer, thus reducing demand. Then you would be making factory production of even the most basic products more expensive in the US, both driving jobs out of this country and reducing supply. Essentially, you want to completely squeeze out our economy. Luckily the rest of the American people do not share your radicalism.
    What will the economic effects of climate change be? The estimates put it in many trillions but its very hard to quantify. But you guys don't believe in climate change so its not a problem, right?

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    Re: North America to Drown in Oil as Mexico Ends Monopoly

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Do YOU have scientific proof that its feasible? Do YOU have scientific proof that we could make a full transition away from fossil fuels? No... you don't.
    No the world is just doing it with the right wing kicking and screaming, dragging their feet as usual. Its pretty obvious we can have a significant impact and we've barely even scratched the surface of alternative energy. I never said full transition either, though eventually it would come to that.

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    Re: North America to Drown in Oil as Mexico Ends Monopoly

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    that is bull****, ethanol nor bio diesel have proven to be sustainable and are incredibly expensive. Wind energy is ok but nothing to jump up and down about, same with solar power. None of these technologies can replace fossil fuels without driving the economy out of reach even for the middle class.
    Have to disagree with some of that. Bio-diesel in particular is NOT expensive at all. It's easy to use in existing vehicles and much easier on the environment and the wallet than petrodiesel. Wind and solar are great for local usage, but you're right, they fail at the massive over-production we need to supply the distributed grid. Hydro is the answer there, the snail darter and the rafting folks just need to get over themselves. Fossil fuel use does not need to be replaced, but it does need to be increasingly augmented.

    As to the Mexican oil fields, they are playing out, that's why Mexico has gotten less and less revenue from them. The oil companies have new tech that can get the most out of them, but we're still not talking a sudden long lasting resource for Mexico again. This is like deciding to go out on a big bag of heroin that took all your last ducets to purchase.

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    Re: North America to Drown in Oil as Mexico Ends Monopoly

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    As far as people go: I'm currently in Mexico and no one here is happy with this. As it is, companies already get away with some of the biggest labor abuses here. With the new investors that will come, the prediction by locals is that the government will be used as a punishing force to anyone who dares oppose oil companies. The comparisons to Nigeria aren't exactly helping. Nigeria is rife with human rights abuses, destruction of habitat and labor abuses. Most Mexicans are already predicting it will also happen here. The next elections will be very interesting to watch. It's already a given that the PRI will lose power federally. The oil producing states of Chiapas, Veracruz and Tabasco are already looking at serious demonstrations. People are well aware of the way in which the government has abused its power to enforce the wishes of corporations.

    The violence: The Gulf of Mexico is a place of interest for most as it is currently controlled by the Gulf Cartel and Zetas. When/if Mexico succeeds in luring interests, most Atlantic Ocean states will likely see an increase in violence and even the possibility of an upsurge in kidnappings. It's already happening with the mining industry. Cartels have taken over some mines as well as kidnapped important mining figures in the states of Guanajuato, Zacatecas & San Luis Potosi.

    The economy: It is a given that in Mexico, wealth does not trickle down. Governors in the state that I'm in have a history of 1) Using violence/kidnappings to establish their position 2) Steal outrageous sums of money/benefits/licenses from coffers and 3) leave the state. So people are more than convinced that once oil companies are allowed to invest in Mexican oil fields, governors will charge a "fee" for them to operate, siphon the money from whatever levy/taxes are paid by oil companies and then leave. Essentially, for most this means that corruption in the state will actually grow.

    My opinion: The only people who seem to be celebrating are those who are those outside of Mexico. Few are actually aware the level of corruption that exists within the country and future investors should be ready to pay out a lot of cash to 1) local governors, 2) cartels and 3) federal employees before they even think about investing here. They will also have to think twice about the violence that will follow their investment. Mexico is not ready for companies to invest in it - not by a long shot.
    Interesting, thanks for this.

    But one of the solutions is obvious to me, Mexico is going to have to legalize drugs and once that is done, the Mexican people must start electing politicians that listen to them. And if they don't then have mass strikes/shutdowns to force them to do as they say. Without the ultra-violent drug cartels, I would guess that peaceful protests will be far easier to carry out.

    The cartels are powered mostly by illegal drug money. The governors are corrupted by the cartels (among others). End the flow of drug money and you severely weaken both and the amount of violence will, IMO, undoubtedly plummet.

    Will legalizing drugs in Mexico be easy? Nope.

    But if they ever want the ridiculously powerful cartels and all the corruption/violence/murders they bring to their regions to end, they had better get it done, IMO.

    Will the American government scream bloody murder if Mexico tries to do that...yup, probably. Will the cartel's murder anyone who even attempts to take away their major source of power...yup, probably.
    Hey, it won't be easy. But something has to be done.

    Or yes, then you maybe right in that the oil money will not flow down to most Mexicans...just mostly into the cartel's/corrupt politician's pockets.


    As for Nigeria?

    Yes, Nigerian's are getting screwed. But a ton of their problems are ethnic violence and Nigeria has had a civil war, military junta's and massive political instability for many decades. This was not a stable country before oil started flowing. But as small as it is, at least some money does flow down to the people.
    Taking that money away will just increase the poverty - and greater poverty is not good for anything. It just invites more anger, frustration, violence, disease.

    If Mexico can break the backs of the cartel's by legalizing drugs...I think that would be a very good start.
    Last edited by DA60; 12-17-13 at 03:55 PM.

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    Re: North America to Drown in Oil as Mexico Ends Monopoly

    Legalizing drugs in Mexico will only make the kingpins more wealthy and connect them even more to the state, making Mexico a narco state. They don't make their money by selling to Mexican users but by selling to foreign users, they EXPORT. Legalizing drugs in Mexico will only strengthen the cartels.

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    Re: North America to Drown in Oil as Mexico Ends Monopoly

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Legalizing drugs in Mexico will only make the kingpins more wealthy and connect them even more to the state, making Mexico a narco state. They don't make their money by selling to Mexican users but by selling to foreign users, they EXPORT. Legalizing drugs in Mexico will only strengthen the cartels.
    then how does one stop the cartels smuggling drugs? a blockade?
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    Re: North America to Drown in Oil as Mexico Ends Monopoly

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    then how does one stop the cartels smuggling drugs? a blockade?
    The same way we're doing now, interdiction. Like many things (murder, pedophilia, grand larceny), they're always going to happen and we're always going to have to do our best to keep on top of it. Eternal vigilence. It's not a set it and forget it sort of thing and there is no magic bullet. One thing is for certain, legalizing drugs in Mexico will only make the problem worse and more difficult to deal with everywhere else.

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    Re: North America to Drown in Oil as Mexico Ends Monopoly

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    not much but that will still be far more than if all profits go overseas no?

    I don't think any one entity would get all the profits, but each would get their share of the profits from their stage of production. No reason anyone in Mexico should get the profits of gas sold at some filling station.

    Because American companies dominate the industry and it is in their back yard. Only ones that might be able to persuade the Mexicans elsewhere is China but I doubt the US would allow that.
    Perhaps an entity such as Statoil or Petrobras would be one of the players. I didn't see anywhere in the article that said that the US had a veto over who would be eligible to participate.

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    Re: North America to Drown in Oil as Mexico Ends Monopoly

    You might think this strange coming from a conservative but I've always thought that if anything needs a good dose of socialism it is a nations natural resources. I can't for the life of me understand how leasing oil fields, or iron ore, or copper or anything else in the ground does not directly belong to the people of the nation. Everything else is up for grabs, but a nations natural resources should belong to the people in the form of lower costs, and or lower taxes offset by the marginal profits of said resource. That all said, I am not in support of government creating an industry and running it, no and damn no for various reasons not limited to union corruption overpaying wages etc, but, we could still reap the rewards and assign the excavation to private entitles. Profit sharing is a more lucrative plan for all citizens, and leasing to private corporations is the least attractive, IMO.

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