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Thread: Polygamy Advocate Groups Hail Judge Ruling in Utah

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    Re: Polygamy Advocate Groups Hail Judge Ruling in Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    I never stated polygamy itself is a violation, I stated the practice was at the heart of forming a dominance in an area in a relatively short period of time which led to constitutional violations in the past. Today however, there are those who find it violates women under the equal protection clause. And I agree.
    The hell? So you're just arguing about some other random ****? "There are polygamists who have done bad things, so we should ban all polygamy".

    Glad I finally got it across to you that polygamy isn't a violation of the constitution. So you either oppose it because you hate liberty and want to control other people's lives, or you seem to think that 100% of all polygamists will go on to "violate the constitution" in other ways. Hell, you might even believe both. Either one is irrational and anti-liberty.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Polygamy Advocate Groups Hail Judge Ruling in Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    You realize that polygamy has been the definition of marriage for thousands of years and predates Christianity right and is still practiced in many religions and countries around the world.
    I have answered this before but will do so again. Those places that still practice polygamy are mainly countries ruled by Sharia Law. This is easily verified starting with Wiki.
    As far as biblical text goes as a record of polygamy practiced.
    The only wife mentioned for Adam was Eve.
    Noah had one wife as did each of his three sons.
    Abraham did not have a haram. His wife Sarah insisted Abraham sleep with her handmaiden Hagar because she had been unable to give him a son. Hagar and Abraham were not married.
    Isaac the son Sarah finally bore was only married to one woman, Rebekah.
    Rebekah bore twins Essau and Jacob.
    Jacob is the first mentioned that was actually married to two women. And that was the result of him being tricked thinking he was getting the one he loved and ended up with her sister. There is too much evidence prior to Jacob to make the claim that some have that polygamy was the norm. It wasn't. In order for a married man to lay with another woman as a serogate to produce an heir seems to have been done at the suggestion of the wife as in the case of Sarah and later Rachael. It was after the Exodus, the laws were given to Moses and the "thou shall not commit adultery" was in the top ten.
    The idea that one man and one woman is the only "traditional" marriage is pretty bogus. (You are free to now move the goalposts and narrow the criteria to met you needs.)
    Since its founding one man and one woman has always been the recognized definition of traditional marriage by state and federal governments until Joseph Smith. The Mormons only practiced polygamy publically for 10 years before the battle to shut the practice down began.

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    Re: Polygamy Advocate Groups Hail Judge Ruling in Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    The hell? So you're just arguing about some other random ****? "There are polygamists who have done bad things, so we should ban all polygamy".

    Glad I finally got it across to you that polygamy isn't a violation of the constitution. So you either oppose it because you hate liberty and want to control other people's lives, or you seem to think that 100% of all polygamists will go on to "violate the constitution" in other ways. Hell, you might even believe both. Either one is irrational and anti-liberty.
    You didn't provide anything more than what I already expressed.
    From the beginning there have been limits on religious freedoms. For instance some remote religion may call for the sacrifice of a virgin during a full moon. Is it denying "liberty" not to allow something like that? There is nothing in the Constitution that directly denies polygamy. But if something someone does results in violations of Constitutional Law which all states need to comply, then it can be challenged in the courts. Polygamy and the LDS church when practiced in the Utah territory it violated free access to public schools, it violated free trade, it violated separation of church and state. It was fought by Congress through new laws and they were challenged in the courts. Congress won. Today after all these years of women now seen equal to men, the practice violates equal protection under the law.

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    Re: Polygamy Advocate Groups Hail Judge Ruling in Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    You didn't provide anything more than what I already expressed.
    From the beginning there have been limits on religious freedoms. For instance some remote religion may call for the sacrifice of a virgin during a full moon. Is it denying "liberty" not to allow something like that? There is nothing in the Constitution that directly denies polygamy. But if something someone does results in violations of Constitutional Law which all states need to comply, then it can be challenged in the courts. Polygamy and the LDS church when practiced in the Utah territory it violated free access to public schools, it violated free trade, it violated separation of church and state. It was fought by Congress through new laws and they were challenged in the courts. Congress won. Today after all these years of women now seen equal to men, the practice violates equal protection under the law.
    1) Comparing two or more consenting adults making a voluntary contract with each other to murdering virgins is the epitome of ridiculous hyperbole. It is nothing like that. Murder has a victim, marriage does not. (Though some people might disagree)

    2) You seem to have more of a beef with the LDS than with polygamy itself. You should distinguish that, because they are not synonymous.

    3) You do realize that polygamy is not restricted to multiple women with one man, right? If Bob, Joe, and Sally want to marry, because it makes them happy, who the **** are you to step in and impose yourself on their lives?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Polygamy Advocate Groups Hail Judge Ruling in Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    1) Comparing two or more consenting adults making a voluntary contract with each other to murdering virgins is the epitome of ridiculous hyperbole. It is nothing like that. Murder has a victim, marriage does not. (Though some people might disagree)
    No it isn't hyperbole when taken in the context the statement was made.
    2) You seem to have more of a beef with the LDS than with polygamy itself. You should distinguish that, because they are not synonymous.
    Incorrect. In dealing with the history of polygamy, the LDS is at the center of it. Their founder Joseph Smith initiated the practice. Today they condemn the practice. The church congregation that Kody Brown and his 4 wives belong to is called the Apostolic Brethren Church.
    3) You do realize that polygamy is not restricted to multiple women with one man, right? If Bob, Joe, and Sally want to marry, because it makes them happy, who the **** are you to step in and impose yourself on their lives?
    Currently in regard to the Apostolic Brethren Church it is restricted to multiple wives to one man. They can now practice their polygamy (since they view their relationships as being married and binding) in the state of Utah while Utah does not recognize but one woman to be the wife. But if polygamy were to be legalized, then it would have to include women having more than one husband. Somehow I don't see that one being real popular. If each male wanted children and only one to provide, she would be pregnant every full moon. If it was a relationship strictly for companionship, even a nymphomaniac would find it a challenge to appease multiple partners.
    While you continue to rail about personal liberties, it also needs to be tempered with what is morally best for society. If you don't then you have anarchy. One of the oldest traditional institutions called Marriage is truly under attack. Since the crusade to redefine marriage to include same sex it has become open market for whatever advocacy group representing anything from polygamy, incest, or anything else that someone wants to define marriage to include. Yesterday you defended gay marriage, today you defend polygamy and tomorrow you will defend incest while the moral compass of society finally becomes broken beyond repair and anything goes.
    Last edited by vesper; 12-16-13 at 03:42 PM.

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    Re: Polygamy Advocate Groups Hail Judge Ruling in Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    No it isn't hyperbole when taken in the context the statement was made.

    Incorrect. In dealing with the history of polygamy, the LDS is at the center of it. Their founder Joseph Smith initiated the practice. Today they condemn the practice. The church congregation that Kody Brown and his 4 wives belong to is called the Apostolic Brethren Church.

    Currently in regard to the Apostolic Brethren Church it is restricted to multiple wives to one man. They can now practice their polygamy (since they view their relationships as being married and binding) in the state of Utah while Utah does not recognize but one woman to be the wife. But if polygamy were to be legalized, then it would have to include women having more than one husband. Somehow I don't see that one being real popular. If each male wanted children and only one to provide, she would be pregnant every full moon. If it was a relationship strictly for companionship, even a nymphomaniac would find it a challenge to appease multiple partners.
    While you continue to rail about personal liberties, it also needs to be tempered with what is morally best for society. If you don't then you have anarchy. One of the oldest traditional institutions called Marriage is truly under attack. Since the crusade to redefine marriage to include same sex it has become open market for whatever advocacy group representing anything from polygamy, incest, or anything else that someone wants to define marriage to include. Yesterday you defended gay marriage, today you defend polygamy and tomorrow you will defend incest while the moral compass of society finally becomes broken beyond repair and anything goes.
    Holy ****. You think polygamy was invented by the LDS. We need to stop now because a conversation with someone that misinformed can not possibly be fruitful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Polygamy Advocate Groups Hail Judge Ruling in Utah

    Can somebody explain the big deal with his ruling to me?
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
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    Re: Polygamy Advocate Groups Hail Judge Ruling in Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    Can somebody explain the big deal with his ruling to me?
    The ruling says that Utah polygamy law is valid but that the portion limiting cohabitation is unconstitutional.

    Some small government types think they should be able to tell people who they can live with. (Yes that doesn't make sense.)



    >>>>

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    Re: Polygamy Advocate Groups Hail Judge Ruling in Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    The ruling says that Utah polygamy law is valid but that the portion limiting cohabitation is unconstitutional.

    Some small government types think they should be able to tell people who they can live with. (Yes that doesn't make sense.)


    Oh i understand that, I just don't understand what the problem is.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
    - Mark Twain
    Run your own nation, play Cybernations.

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    Re: Polygamy Advocate Groups Hail Judge Ruling in Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Holy ****. You think polygamy was invented by the LDS. We need to stop now because a conversation with someone that misinformed can not possibly be fruitful.
    Don't be putting words in my post! I never stated the LDS INVENTED POLYGAMY. But it was that time in history in the mid 1800's that the LDS was at the center of the polygamy battle. You are so disingenuous with your responses. I'm done discussing anything with you.

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