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Thread: Yemen says U.S. drone struck a wedding convoy, killing 14

  1. #11
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    Re: Yemen says U.S. drone struck a wedding convoy, killing 14

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    It would appear not because of the hard lobbying by those now profitting from this system. As with nearly all federal spending, there are those that have come to depend on it for their incomes.
    So while they profit the country incurs debt, lives are lost, and assymetric approaches are exchanged at the battlefield! Who is they? Cannot "they" be isolated and contained?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
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    Re: Yemen says U.S. drone struck a wedding convoy, killing 14

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    So while they profit the country incurs debt, lives are lost, and assymetric approaches are exchanged at the battlefield! Who is they? Cannot "they" be isolated and contained?
    They are defense contractors, those that supply high cost mil-spec war toys and those that get the "nation building" contracts. Don't you find it odd that the F35 is "built in over 30 states" and that the F22 was never used in combat? They lobby the congress critters and make campaign contributions to keep those DOD dollars flowing their way. USA, USA, USA...
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Yemen says U.S. drone struck a wedding convoy, killing 14

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is exactly why the Jihadis are so scary and effective - they are said to be nationless. The 9/11/2001 crew were from Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Yemen yet we went to war in Afghanistan, had a side adventure in Iraq and zapped UBL, years later, in Pakistan. For every $200 IED, suicide bomber or sniper attack we respond with $1 million in military raids and about the same in foreign aid. The never ending war on terror is mighty profitable for the MIC - let's roll!

    The best analogy I have heard yet is we are playing whack-a-mole with terrorists. We go in one place to rid them of terrorists, and then once we temporarily flush them out there they just move on. I think it is clear that the use of drones is just making scores of enemies.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
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    Re: Yemen says U.S. drone struck a wedding convoy, killing 14

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    According to a story I saw, there were a couple tribal elders present among the dead as well. Could be more than meets the eye here, or could be elimination of political rivals. Either way, if we rely on Yemeni intelligence, you have to be willing to accept 'mistakes' like this.
    My main point is why do we feel the need to use drones at all. Then we wouldn't have to worry a about flawed intel program anywhere.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
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    Run your own nation, play Cybernations.

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    Re: Yemen says U.S. drone struck a wedding convoy, killing 14

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    The best analogy I have heard yet is we are playing whack-a-mole with terrorists. We go in one place to rid them of terrorists, and then once we temporarily flush them out there they just move on. I think it is clear that the use of drones is just making scores of enemies.
    it's a good point, and we use them on "militants" - whatever that means. not just high value terrorists.

    Our so called signature strikes: http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/...-program/?_r=0

    Toward the end of a May 27 article in The Times about President Obama’s speech in which, among other things, he mentioned setting new standards for ordering drone strikes against non-Americans, there was this rather disturbing paragraph:

    “Even as he set new standards, a debate broke out about what they actually meant and what would actually change.
    For now, officials said, ‘signature strikes’ targeting groups of unidentified armed men presumed to be extremists will continue in the Pakistani tribal areas.”
    As Glenn Greenwald has pointed out, those two sentences seem to contradict the entire tenor of Mr. Obama’s speech,
    And yes the Yemeni INTEl can be a cellphone call from someone in the field - I would imagine faulty data used for revenge,

    ONLY way to use these is : 1. "high value" targets only 2. cross checked, or exacting INTEL. 3. limited use.

    we are doing none of these as of now
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    Re: Yemen says U.S. drone struck a wedding convoy, killing 14

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    The best analogy I have heard yet is we are playing whack-a-mole with terrorists. We go in one place to rid them of terrorists, and then once we temporarily flush them out there they just move on. I think it is clear that the use of drones is just making scores of enemies.
    Just as the "war on drugs" and the "war on poverty" will last forever so will the "war on terror". They all have their fan bases that depend on these wars continuing for their incomes/profits.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Yemen says U.S. drone struck a wedding convoy, killing 14

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    This is the exact formula for failing Vietnam. You invested millions of dollars they used mud, feces, tunnels, and free snakes. Cannot you wise up from this sort of engagement?
    We COULD learn from Vietnam, and I believe we did... however what we learned was more self delusion and scapegoating. Delusion in many forms- from 'we always won' to 'we have solved the problem of Vietnam'. Throw in 'the liberals stabbed our troops in the back' (never mind many CONs would NEVER allow their kids to go into the jungle) and you have the soup we quaffed while nursing our wounded pride over the war we couldn't win.

    I have read quite a few sci-fi books where an Empire dictates to the rest, a way to live and system to govern. Everything from economic to internal politics is set and approved by the 'Empire'. Many who support the Empire do so thinking it is for the greater good of the world/solar system/galaxy. The Imperial Forces have a HUGE tech advantage over the inhabitants of the other worlds, yet these 'crazy' rebels fight the massive Empire with often little more than sheer guts, and a bit of luck, and some intangible called a 'force'.

    Sometimes as an ex-Imperial Trooper I can't help but wonder if many who are on the receiving end of our high tech attacks have heard of the books in the "Dune" or "Star Wars" series...

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    Re: Yemen says U.S. drone struck a wedding convoy, killing 14

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    We COULD learn from Vietnam, and I believe we did... however what we learned was more self delusion and scapegoating. Delusion in many forms- from 'we always won' to 'we have solved the problem of Vietnam'. Throw in 'the liberals stabbed our troops in the back' (never mind many CONs would NEVER allow their kids to go into the jungle) and you have the soup we quaffed while nursing our wounded pride over the war we couldn't win.

    I have read quite a few sci-fi books where an Empire dictates to the rest, a way to live and system to govern. Everything from economic to internal politics is set and approved by the 'Empire'. Many who support the Empire do so thinking it is for the greater good of the world/solar system/galaxy. The Imperial Forces have a HUGE tech advantage over the inhabitants of the other worlds, yet these 'crazy' rebels fight the massive Empire with often little more than sheer guts, and a bit of luck, and some intangible called a 'force'.

    Sometimes as an ex-Imperial Trooper I can't help but wonder if many who are on the receiving end of our high tech attacks have heard of the books in the "Dune" or "Star Wars" series...
    The point is though that, if a certain goal can be achieved by cheaper means then the one to make highest expenses loses the war. Why cannot you compete with cheapness to war? Why cannot you be cheaper than those at the other side?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  9. #19
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    Re: Yemen says U.S. drone struck a wedding convoy, killing 14

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    My main point is why do we feel the need to use drones at all. Then we wouldn't have to worry a about flawed intel program anywhere.
    A couple points:

    1) Drones are the future of warfare (period).
    2) If we aren't developing, then someone else will eventually and then we're behind the power curve
    3) Drones are cheaper than training people to be in a cockpit, and don't require all of the life support systems that manned aircraft need
    4) Drones are politically correct because if one crashes, no one dies on board
    5) Drones can loiter miles overhead for long periods of time

    We don't need to use drones, but it makes sense given the above points. Drones don't kill people, people do. So it sounds like your beef is more about the process of determining targets rather than the method by which they are struck. After all, a drone overhead is only as dangerous as the commands that are sent to it.

  10. #20
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    Re: Yemen says U.S. drone struck a wedding convoy, killing 14

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    it's a good point, and we use them on "militants" - whatever that means. not just high value terrorists.

    Our so called signature strikes: http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/...-program/?_r=0



    And yes the Yemeni INTEl can be a cellphone call from someone in the field - I would imagine faulty data used for revenge,

    ONLY way to use these is : 1. "high value" targets only 2. cross checked, or exacting INTEL. 3. limited use.

    we are doing none of these as of now
    Wtf kinda wording is that in the quote?? "Pressumed to be an extremist"

    So if dude sees some farmer on a cam and called in "Hey I think this guy might be an extremist" Can the decider go, "You pressumed it, fire."?
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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