Page 15 of 18 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 177

Thread: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

  1. #141
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:00 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    To buy the whole company maybe so. But the company would have been broken up and their would have been several buyers. You do know GM had factories all over the world, or in markets they wanted to be in. So there was plenty of economic opertunity for many buyers of parts of GM at a good price and a union force that would have had to make huge concessions.
    The European operations were and are in a loss making situation. South America is ok for GM but not great. GM does very well in China with its main partner of SAIC, so its Chinese ops would have sold very easily.

    Domestically the only part that could have been sold piece meal is the truck making operations. The car manufacturing parts would have been of no interest to any other auto company but the Chinese. That would present certain risks regarding IP rights and who would own what patents
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  2. #142
    Sage
    pbrauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    11-27-15 @ 03:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,394

    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    They are the same thing.
    How are they the same thing?

  3. #143
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,890
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    How are they the same thing?

    They reference federally managed bankruptcy.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  4. #144
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:00 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The economic conditions are no better now.
    They certainly are

    The banks are in alright conditions, and making money, the auto industry is making money, and sales have gone from 10 million to nearly 16.5 million expect for this year

    Ford, GM and Chrysler are actually making money, while GM lost 39 billion in one year before the bailout
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  5. #145
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:00 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    So according to your logic because of the economic conditions at that time, the tax payer lost over 10 billion, for what??????
    Instead of even more money being spent on the Pbgc which would have required a bailout, the welfare checks the UI checks etc
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  6. #146
    Pragmatic Idealist
    upsideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mtn. High
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:07 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,127

    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    Anyone here realize WE paid the 10 billion??
    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    What a waste of money. This is a great example of squandering tax payer dollars and all we did really was to save union jobs with bloated contracts that will make GM fail again. If GM had been allowed to go bankrupt and these contracts could have been renegotiated so that the company stood a long term chance of surviving and us tax payers would not be 10 billion in the hole.
    OK, let's put this in perspective (as we know our friends on the right have no perspective).... Had we not bailed out GM (and Chrysler) the estimate loss of jobs from GM, Chrysler and their respective supply chains would have been more than 1,000,000 jobs. If each one of those collected $10,000 in unemployment benefits would be.... guess what $10B. That says nothing about the lost income tax revenue from these workers (assume they make, on average, 50K per year.... is another $10B per year, plus lost payroll taxes, assumption of pension costs by the PBGC.... and those are just the obvious direct costs... all in, for $10B, the US got to keep their auto industry and keep the economy from free falling. All in, it was an incredible investment (when compared to the alternatives...which were not very good)

    In contrast, the very avoidable government shut down, which served no purpose, took $24B out of GDP... given the federal government gets 18% of GDP in the form of taxes, cost the federal government $4.3B. Then, laying off federal workers but paying them anyway cost the government $2B for services not rendered... meaning our elective government shutdown cost $6.3B.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/08/us...down.html?_r=0

    Sorry, being against the $10B bailout of the auto industry but for the $6.3B shut down of government is being against reason. Thinking that it all would have worked out another way? ------Clueless.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 12-10-13 at 11:35 PM.

  7. #147
    Sage
    Born Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Sonny and Nice
    Last Seen
    12-14-17 @ 04:21 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    6,396

    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The European operations were and are in a loss making situation. South America is ok for GM but not great. GM does very well in China with its main partner of SAIC, so its Chinese ops would have sold very easily.

    Domestically the only part that could have been sold piece meal is the truck making operations. The car manufacturing parts would have been of no interest to any other auto company but the Chinese. That would present certain risks regarding IP rights and who would own what patents
    By going into a true bankruptcy the union labor cost would have been restructured, lowering cost, in Europe.

    As for the Domestic market, you say the Chinese may have been interested. Yes. When you buy a company all your concerns with the IP rights and the patents would have been addressed at that time of sale. Further existing auto manufactures could be very interested in buying up some of GM's domestic plants to expand, as GM as we know it would be gone. So the existing manufactures have to pick up the slack and no better way than take over GM's plants.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

  8. #148
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,890
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    OK, let's put this in perspective (as we know our friends on the right have no perspective).... Had we not bailed out GM (and Chrysler) the estimate loss of jobs from GM, Chrysler and their respective supply chains would have been more than 1,000,000 jobs. If each one of those collected $10,000 in unemployment benefits would be.... guess what $10B. That says nothing about the lost income tax revenue from these workers (assume they make, on average, 50K per year.... is another $10B per year, plus lost payroll taxes, assumption of pension costs by the PBGC.... and those are just the obvious direct costs... all in, for $10B, the US got to keep their auto industry and keep the economy from free falling. All in, it was an incredible investment (when compared to the alternatives...which were not very good)

    In contrast, the very avoidable government shut down, which served no purpose, took $24B out of GDP... given the federal government gets 18% of GDP in the form of taxes, cost the federal government $4.3B. Then, laying off federal workers but paying them anyway cost the government $2B for services not rendered... meaning our elective government shutdown cost $6.3B.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/08/us...down.html?_r=0

    Sorry, being against the $10B bailout of the auto industry but for the $6.3B shut down of government is being against reason. Thinking that it all would have worked out another way? ------Clueless.
    What a ridiculous post. The shutdown is a complete red herring. No one here advocates it. The NYT's doomsday scenario is scare-tactic propaganda. Next.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  9. #149
    Pragmatic Idealist
    upsideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mtn. High
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:07 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,127

    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    What a ridiculous post. The shutdown is a complete red herring. No one here advocates it. The NYT's doomsday scenario is scare-tactic propaganda. Next.
    Fact is, it was a spot on post... we got something for the $10B spent in Detroit. We got nothing for the $6.3B spent shutting down the government. They cost, in order of magnitude, surprisingly similar amounts. Yet, we had no where near the outrage over the government shutdown that we have over the GM bailouts.

    and, ye of short memory, there were many people on this Board that advocated it and supported it.... and many, many more that were silent about it.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 12-10-13 at 11:49 PM.

  10. #150
    Sage
    Lutherf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    24,695

    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    OK, let's put this in perspective (as we know our friends on the right have no perspective).... Had we not bailed out GM (and Chrysler) the estimate loss of jobs from GM, Chrysler and their respective supply chains would have been more than 1,000,000 jobs. If each one of those collected $10,000 in unemployment benefits would be.... guess what $10B. That says nothing about the lost income tax revenue from these workers (assume they make, on average, 50K per year.... is another $10B per year, plus lost payroll taxes, assumption of pension costs by the PBGC.... and those are just the obvious direct costs... all in, for $10B, the US got to keep their auto industry and keep the economy from free falling. All in, it was an incredible investment (when compared to the alternatives...which were not very good)

    In contrast, the very avoidable government shut down, which served no purpose, took $24B out of GDP... given the federal government gets 18% of GDP in the form of taxes, cost the federal government $4.3B. Then, laying off federal workers but paying them anyway cost the government $2B for services not rendered... meaning our elective government shutdown cost $6.3B.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/08/us...down.html?_r=0

    Sorry, being against the $10B bailout of the auto industry but for the $6.3B shut down of government is being against reason. Thinking that it all would have worked out another way? Clueless.
    A million employees?

    Really?

    At the time GM employed maybe 250k. There is no way in hell that parts of the operation wouldn't be picked up so the loss there might have been 100k jobs if things went really bad. They also had 6k dealerships. If the average dealership employed 100 people that would be 600k jobs but a lot of those dealerships would have simply switched brands so, again, the loss would be far less than "all".

    On top of that if the whole thing burned to the ground we STILL wouldn't see all those people go on unemployment. Some would retire and most would move to another job. Inside of 2 months you'd likely have 80% of the employees that got bounced in a new job.

Page 15 of 18 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •