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Thread: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

  1. #131
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    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Without government money being involved GM would not likely have survived. With a lot of government guarantees it probably would have but the government still could have lost a lot of money
    Do you support the bank bailouts, too?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #132
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    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post

    And yes, that is actually a role for government on occasion -- especially when "doing nothing" would plunge the nation into a depression. In particular, many Asian governments provide extensive financial support to local companies; it's one reason why they often out-compete US companies.

    A normal bankruptcy was not an option, period. No one in the private sector was willing to bail out the auto companies. If GM alone had gone under, it would have decimated one of the largest manufacturing industries in the US.

    Creditors would still have gotten screwed in a normal bankruptcy. And the unions made concessions for years before the bankruptcy, and made some additional ones during the bailout.

    GM has also posted profits for the last 15 quarters; it's a more nimble company; it shed a bunch of dead-weight brands. Like it or not, the bailout has succeeded.
    Understand all that, however I was responding to post #85.

    But to you're comments, you have no idea that "doing nothing" would plunge the nation into anything. There are many that say exactly that and I'm one of them. There are so many things that could have happened to GM, to say it would plunge the nation has no basis of fact. Further we're not talking about Asian governments. Last, can you post up a few times the Big Daddy has purchased stock in a structured banckruptcy.

    A normal bankruptcy was an option. period. There was no need to bail out the unions or the company, the company would have been broken up and sold off to companies that would take over the manufacturing plants with a new brand name. GM had plenty of market share and factories in place to sell.

    Creditors would not have gotten screwed as much in a normal bankruptcy. Bond holder in a bankruptcy take a hit but don't lose everything as Obama structured it to save the Unions. In a normal bankruptcy the unions would share in the hit. In this case they did not.

    Last GM has also posted profits for the last 15 quarters, do you know why, a big clue. Their bond debt is gone. The bond holders are no more. Now do you get, how they can now show a profit. Before the Obama/GM bankruptcy GM's debt was too large to make a profit.

    And lets not forget the tax payer lost over 10 billion bailing out GM. Yes that is 10 Billion of some of my taxes went to bail out GM, actually my tax dollars went to bailout the unions. Period.
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  3. #133
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    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Again, it would still have been a bailout

    Taxpayer dollars being used to prop up a failed company with no guarantee of being paid back. It could have cost the government (ie taxpayer) $11 billion dollars or more, or less depending on the size of the loan
    Let me guess, GM was, "too big to fail"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #134
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    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    On the contrary, the two fit together very snugly.
    Born Free said: "the bond holders would get something on their dollar", but you said "Moody's is linked to investors. Of course they want to avoid bankruptcy. Just protecting the BHO gang's financiers."

    You can't have it both ways.

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    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Born Free said: "the bond holders would get something on their dollar", but you said "Moody's is linked to investors. Of course they want to avoid bankruptcy. Just protecting the BHO gang's financiers."

    You can't have it both ways.
    They are the same thing.
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  6. #136
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    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Do you support the bank bailouts, too?
    The way they were done, no I don't

    The AIG bailout, yes because the shareholders lost a significant amount of money from it, along with job loses Citi, the same. For the other institutions, the loss of shareholder wealth and ownership was not reduced as much as it should have been.

    As much as I don't like the term and how it is used in many cases but moral hazard was created by the bank bailouts in general and risk has increased because of it.

    When a company needs to be bailed out by the government the shareholders need to suffer large loses (including vastly diluted ownership %) as to ensure they put pressure on management to run the company effectively and safely for the long term
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    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Let me guess, GM was, "too big to fail"?
    Certainly not

    The only reason I would have supported the GM bailout is because of the economic conditions at that time. If GM was to go bankrupt today, I would say they should not get any government money
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    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Yes in NORMAL economic times it is a great time to do so. But in this case no companies were willing to step up and risk the money that would have been required to do so. Or those that would have been willing would not have gotten financing from the banks. With the exception of Chinese ones. I doubt SAIC would have been allowed to buy GM so it does not matter
    To buy the whole company maybe so. But the company would have been broken up and their would have been several buyers. You do know GM had factories all over the world, or in markets they wanted to be in. So there was plenty of economic opertunity for many buyers of parts of GM at a good price and a union force that would have had to make huge concessions.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
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    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Certainly not

    The only reason I would have supported the GM bailout is because of the economic conditions at that time. If GM was to go bankrupt today, I would say they should not get any government money
    The economic conditions are no better now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #140
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    Re: US Lost Ten Billion Dollars on GM Bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Certainly not

    The only reason I would have supported the GM bailout is because of the economic conditions at that time. If GM was to go bankrupt today, I would say they should not get any government money
    So according to your logic because of the economic conditions at that time, the tax payer lost over 10 billion, for what??????
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

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