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Thread: Judge strikes down law that gives clergy members tax-free housing allowances

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    Re: Judge strikes down law that gives clergy members tax-free housing allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    So to be clear, you do think that special rights are more important that equal rights? That because someone serves the church they should not be held to the same standard as the rest of us. It is important to you that certain groups be given special rights and priveledges? Does that about sum it up?
    I don't believe in Rights. I believe in Privileges, granted by society to those who have proven themselves capable and willing to maintain proper lifestyle. I also believe that the Government and Religious Organizations should be totally separated; neither one having anything else to do with the other. TOTAL SEPARATION of Church and State.

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    Re: Judge strikes down law that gives clergy members tax-free housing allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I don't believe in Rights. I believe in Privileges, granted by society to those who have proven themselves capable and willing to maintain proper lifestyle. I also believe that the Government and Religious Organizations should be totally separated; neither one having anything else to do with the other. TOTAL SEPARATION of Church and State.
    So you dont think the government has the right to tax? And since you believe in priveledges not rights you dont think think you have a right to bare arms, or freedom of speech? Which then sounds like you believe in total government control. In which that control would extend the priveledge of taxes the church the same as anyone else.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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    Re: Judge strikes down law that gives clergy members tax-free housing allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Again you screw up. A W4 declares your filing status and number of dependents to the employer, a W2 declares taxable income paid to and taxes withheld from the employee.
    You are desperate to try and sound like you know something.

    Yes I switched W4 and 2 but the employer still has to report the payments/fair market value just like banks and investment houses report an interest income directly to the IRS.

    Nothing changed.

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    Re: Judge strikes down law that gives clergy members tax-free housing allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I can only speak for the Protestant (predominantly Lutheran) churches I'm familiar with, but in those cases the Pastor is a salaried employee. They get a weekly/monthly paycheck just like the rest of us. That is what they have to live on, no dipping into church funds for personal expenses.
    The last part is kinda what I was driving at, the monies gathered for outreach and mission work are separate from the money going to a preacher. This preacher of yours, was his paycheck based on the weekly tithes given? Who wrote the check? Was it the local congregation or the supervising religious leadership? I ask all of that because it seems to me the tax change doesn't affect the Church's good works but rather the lifestyle of the individual Preachers.

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    Re: Judge strikes down law that gives clergy members tax-free housing allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    So you dont think the government has the right to tax? And since you believe in priveledges not rights you dont think think you have a right to bare arms, or freedom of speech? Which then sounds like you believe in total government control. In which that control would extend the priveledge of taxes the church the same as anyone else.
    I strongly believe in the right to bare arms. As a matter of fact, I am wearing a sleeveless t-shirt right now.
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    Re: Judge strikes down law that gives clergy members tax-free housing allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    The last part is kinda what I was driving at, the monies gathered for outreach and mission work are separate from the money going to a preacher. This preacher of yours, was his paycheck based on the weekly tithes given? Who wrote the check? Was it the local congregation or the supervising religious leadership? I ask all of that because it seems to me the tax change doesn't affect the Church's good works but rather the lifestyle of the individual Preachers.
    In all of the churches that I've been associated with there has been a separation of funds. One fund for the physical plant and operation of the church building and staff and another for missions, outreach, etc.... Monies could not be transfered from one to the other without a congregational meeting. Tithes given without an allocation were split 50/50. The pastor was paid by the congregation, from congregational funds based on a formal, written employment contract which spelled out his pay, benefits, etc... In every one of those congregations on an almost yearly basis there would have to be a "push" at the end of the year to get people to donate to the operational budget so that things like the heating and electric bills could be taken care of, along with other operational expenses. More than once we came way too close to not having the funds to meet operational obligations.

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    Re: Judge strikes down law that gives clergy members tax-free housing allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    So you dont think the government has the right to tax? And since you believe in priveledges not rights you dont think think you have a right to bare arms, or freedom of speech? Which then sounds like you believe in total government control. In which that control would extend the priveledge of taxes the church the same as anyone else.
    Under my reading of the US Constitution, I do not believe our current tax system is legal; however that's a topic for another time and place.

    I believe that at this point Government control is the only practical means to reimpose proper order on society. I do not support the idea of otganized public religion to begin with. I believe it should be a private issue and that like all private issues it should be kept behind closed doors, not in the public eye. Given an opportunity to re-order society, public organized religion would be done away with. People could practice whatever they like in private, so long as it was consentual. Any extension of that into the public would draw significant reprecussions.

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    Re: Judge strikes down law that gives clergy members tax-free housing allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I strongly believe in the right to bare arms. As a matter of fact, I am wearing a sleeveless t-shirt right now.
    For the record so do I. And i have seen Tigger many times mention that right in the gun threads. Suddenly when it suits his argument he doesn't believe in rights.
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    Re: Judge strikes down law that gives clergy members tax-free housing allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Under my reading of the US Constitution, I do not believe our current tax system is legal; however that's a topic for another time and place.

    I believe that at this point Government control is the only practical means to reimpose proper order on society. I do not support the idea of otganized public religion to begin with. I believe it should be a private issue and that like all private issues it should be kept behind closed doors, not in the public eye. Given an opportunity to re-order society, public organized religion would be done away with. People could practice whatever they like in private, so long as it was consentual. Any extension of that into the public would draw significant reprecussions.
    There goes freedom of religion, and freedom of speech, all in one sentence. Well done. LOL.
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    Re: Judge strikes down law that gives clergy members tax-free housing allowances

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Under my reading of the US Constitution, I do not believe our current tax system is legal; however that's a topic for another time and place.

    I believe that at this point Government control is the only practical means to reimpose proper order on society. .
    SO then you believe that government control, including taking guns away from the public and a government imposed health care system would be appropriate? Interesting.

    I do not support the idea of otganized public religion to begin with. I believe it should be a private issue and that like all private issues it should be kept behind closed doors, not in the public eye. Given an opportunity to re-order society, public organized religion would be done away with. People could practice whatever they like in private, so long as it was consentual. Any extension of that into the public would draw significant reprecussions
    And by that logic they wouldn't making money, and therefore wouldn't have a need to be taxed. But that is not the way it is. They are very public, and many religious institutions impose their will and beliefs into society and the government. Therefore even from the church end is not a separation of church and state. So your little argument that they shouldn't have to pay taxes still does not hold any water.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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