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Protesters in Kiev Topple Lenin Statue as Rallies Grow

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By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and ANDREW E. KRAMER
Published: December 8, 2013

KIEV, Ukraine — Protesters in Kiev, the capital of Ukraine, toppled the city’s main statue of Lenin on Sunday and then pounded it into chips with a sledgehammer as a crowd chanted and cheered. The destruction of the statue was a cathartic moment in the biggest day of demonstrations so far against President Viktor F. Yanukovich’s turn away from Europe...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/09/w...rope-protesters-as-thousands-more-gather.html



Interesting, this reminds me a bit of the dissolution of the Soviet Union, its surreal to see them protesting FOR free trade (or at least the EU version of it). Its also surreal to see that they still have statues of Lenin up in Ukraine. :roll:
 
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Well at least Lenin still has his personality
 
Wow. Did they just learn that the Soviet Union disbanded?
 
Still it seems a very small group, all things considered and the mass protests in Greece and France where 10s of 1000s showed up,... last I read an actual esitmate it was in the 100s maybe a 1000. Seems to me very few are actually upset with the turn easterly rather than westerly but because westerners still demonize Russia, we are hearing about it. Hell we're having bigger protests here for minimum wage increase and it's hardly making a dent in media. So blow it out of proportion if you want, but it doesn't really seem like very many, not even a majority, are against closer ties with Russia and not joining the EU under the strict banker-thieves they would have to accommodate if they join the EU.
 
Symbolic gesture that they want to cut ties with Russia, and not having to be dependent on the Russian economy.
 
Still it seems a very small group, all things considered and the mass protests in Greece and France where 10s of 1000s showed up,... last I read an actual esitmate it was in the 100s maybe a 1000. Seems to me very few are actually upset with the turn easterly rather than westerly but because westerners still demonize Russia, we are hearing about it. Hell we're having bigger protests here for minimum wage increase and it's hardly making a dent in media. So blow it out of proportion if you want, but it doesn't really seem like very many, not even a majority, are against closer ties with Russia and not joining the EU under the strict banker-thieves they would have to accommodate if they join the EU.


What makes you say that? Most major news outlets are reporting hundreds of thousands on the streets in Kiev while polls show a strong plurality favor the EU pact (45%) while strongly opposing a similar association with Russia and the Kazakh/Belarus customs union (only 14% support it). You appear to be incorrect.

BBC News - Ukraine's capital Kiev gripped by huge pro-EU demonstration
Poll Finds Ukrainians Favor EU Pact - WSJ.com

Edit: The AP is estimating a crowd of at least 500,000.
 
What makes you say that? Most major news outlets are reporting hundreds of thousands on the streets in Kiev while polls show a strong plurality favor the EU pact (45%) while strongly opposing a similar association with Russia and the Customs Union (only 14% support it). You appear to be incorrect.

BBC News - Ukraine's capital Kiev gripped by huge pro-EU demonstration
Poll Finds Ukrainians Favor EU Pact - WSJ.com
I haven't really paid attention since Wednesday, I guess they've grown.
 
Still it seems a very small group, all things considered and the mass protests in Greece and France where 10s of 1000s showed up,... last I read an actual esitmate it was in the 100s maybe a 1000. Seems to me very few are actually upset with the turn easterly rather than westerly but because westerners still demonize Russia, we are hearing about it. Hell we're having bigger protests here for minimum wage increase and it's hardly making a dent in media. So blow it out of proportion if you want, but it doesn't really seem like very many, not even a majority, are against closer ties with Russia and not joining the EU under the strict banker-thieves they would have to accommodate if they join the EU.
You make it sound like Westerners unfairly demonize Russia.

We'd probably have a lot of Russian liberals disagree with that statement, but they keep on disappearing.
 
Symbolic gesture that they want to cut ties with Russia, and not having to be dependent on the Russian economy.

'Coz who'd ever actually want to smash a statue of Lenin, right?
 
What makes you say that? Most major news outlets are reporting hundreds of thousands on the streets in Kiev while polls show a strong plurality favor the EU pact (45%) while strongly opposing a similar association with Russia and the Kazakh/Belarus customs union (only 14% support it). You appear to be incorrect.

BBC News - Ukraine's capital Kiev gripped by huge pro-EU demonstration
Poll Finds Ukrainians Favor EU Pact - WSJ.com

Edit: The AP is estimating a crowd of at least 500,000.

Can you link to those polls please, as your second link requires subscription to view the article.

Fallen.
 

Thank you, but never-mind, I just ended-up Googling it.

The poll was conducted among only 1000 respondents age 16+...not really an adequate sample for a country with 40+ million population.
Moreover, the polling company fails to mention which cities and regions they conducted the poll in...but they still somehow make the claim that the poll is an accurate representation of age, region, etc... of Ukraine's population?!?

Cheers,
Fallen.
 
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What makes you say that? Most major news outlets are reporting hundreds of thousands on the streets in Kiev while polls show a strong plurality favor the EU pact (45%) while strongly opposing a similar association with Russia and the Kazakh/Belarus customs union (only 14% support it). You appear to be incorrect.

BBC News - Ukraine's capital Kiev gripped by huge pro-EU demonstration
Poll Finds Ukrainians Favor EU Pact - WSJ.com

Edit: The AP is estimating a crowd of at least 500,000.

She was only off 500x on her estimate of the crowd. ;)
 
Thank you, but never-mind, I just ended-up Googling it.

The poll was conducted among only 1000 respondents of 16+...not really an adequate sample for a country with 40+ million population.
Moreover, the polling company fails to mention which cities and regions they conducted the poll in...but they still somehow make the claim that the poll is an accurate representation of age, region, etc... of Ukraine's population?!?

Cheers,
Fallen.

Fair enough what polls have you seen that suggest otherwise?
 
Fair enough what polls have you seen that suggest otherwise?

None.
That is why I am asking to see the original polling data every time someone posts or talks to me about these numbers.

The 40-50% support polls I've seen so far are either being conducted by pro-Western centers/ have absolutely tiny sample sizes, or just have other issues - like failing to mention in which regions/cities the polls were conducted.

Cheers,
Fallen.
 
He did during the revolution. JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Political fervor, no doubt.

I hadn't read Mises before but after seeing this I certainly will.

At the heart of fascism lies state control of the economy. In this type of socialism, the government dictates economic decisions and the ostensible business owners must obey its orders. It was precisely this pattern that Mises found in Nazism, and, unfortunately, it has become increasingly prevalent in America today.
 
Lenin didnt believe in utopia neither do i

C'mon. The man was a mass-murdering monster, but can't you at least allow for the possibility that he was a sincere mass-murdering monster?
 
Wow. Did they just learn that the Soviet Union disbanded?

The filthy idols are still scattered around many towns in the Ukraine and Russia. The officials are hesitant to remove them all: in Russia (and around Donetsk), because it would infuriate the still-potent Communist minority; in the Ukraine, because it would be seen as an act of anti-Russian defiance.

His mummy is still on display in that weird ziggurat on the Red Square in Moscow, you know. Surreal and deeply offensive, in what is supposed to be an Orthodox Christian country - even if it were not a body of a tyrant guilty of countless murders of innocents.
 
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I hadn't read Mises before but after seeing this I certainly will.

Glad to hear it, the Austrian school saw first hand how bad it could get-and especially considering the mentality in europe at the time-it was particularly insightful.

Fascism and the modern American left share many of the same policies. And yet they have the nerve to refer to an American conservative (who holds the individual supreme) as Fascists with a superficial understanding of both fascism and conservatism, but hey, both are to the right of european socialism so we must be the same. :roll:
 
The filthy idols are still scattered around many towns in the Ukraine and Russia. The officials are hesitant to remove them all: in Russia (and around Donetsk), because it would infuriate the still-potent Communist minority; in the Ukraine, because it would be seen as an act of anti-Russian defiance.

His mummy is still on display in that weird ziggurat on the Red Square in Moscow, you know. Surreal and deeply offensive, in what is supposed to be an Orthodox Christian country - even if it were not a body of a tyrant guilty of countless murders of innocents.

Absolutely correct.
 
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