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Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

AGENT J said:
yep just like people who served blacks out the back door in the ally but as soon as they act like they are equals and try to come in the front door they dont but its not because they are black its because they think they are equals and want equal rights, thats what makes it not discrimination lol <sarcasm off> wow that fallacy was easy to completely destroy.facts defeat your post again, so does the court case and the court rulling
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Seems I was wrong. There are still a few around who think this is about Blacks in the 50's.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
1.)Oh really? according to who, you?
2.) She has gone on for pages using blacks suffrage equivalent to the gay couple that was denied a wedding cake because of the baker's moral convictions in regard to marriage.
3.) And it is unfounded rhetoric.
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1.) history, facts, and reality what else is needed
2.) equivalent as in identical? no
equivalent as in comparison because they are both in fact civil/legal/equal rights issues? yes 100% she is correct
3.) its factually correct has proven by history, laws, rights, court cases and court precedent and this exact court ruling

facts defeat your post again
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
To add to your comments, Vesper, this baker had always served Gays in the past. He just didn't want bake a cake for a Gay marriage because, like Barrack Obama and Bill Clinton, he supported traditional marriage. It was against his religion as well.

This whole thing abut Blacks is a crock, and even the dimmest of leftists must know it.
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It's a disingenuous argument to say the least. Yes I know the baker catered to the entire community all sorts of cakes/confections, just not gay wedding cakes due to religious convictions. Did you catch my post about the proposed legislation that will protect the rights of people like the baker and it has support from BOTH parties!
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
Seems I was wrong. There are still a few around who think this is about Blacks in the 50's.
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really? can you back up that lie you just posted?
ill never post again if you can back up the lie you just posted, please factually quote me saying that this is about the blacks in the 50s. we would love to read it.

Facts defeat your post again (im gonna have to put this fact in my sig if i keep replying to the same posts)
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
Oh really? according to who, you? She has gone on for pages using blacks suffrage equivalent to the gay couple that was denied a wedding cake because of the baker's moral convictions in regard to marriage. And it is unfounded rhetoric.
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The pictures are pointless....again...that differed community to community, usually in the South. I dont deny that. It was a dark period for Americans.

And yet you still seem to deny that blacks were allowed in the same establishments as whites BUT excluded from THE SAME treatment. They were forced to sit in less desirous areas and often received 2nd rate service and food. Whites were given priority while blacks waited until all whites were served, things like that.

Blatant discrimination....and yet they still took their (blacks) $$. Let me ask you...do you think the blacks were charged LESS?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

AGENT J said:
really? can you back up that lie you just posted?
ill never post again if you can back up the lie you just posted, please factually quote me saying that this is about the blacks in the 50s. we would love to read it.

Facts defeat your post again (im gonna have to put this fact in my sig if i keep replying to the same posts)
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So the photos of restaurants in the 50's are FACTS relating to the FACTS in this case? This is getting quite strange!
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

AGENT J said:
really? can you back up that lie you just posted?
ill never post again if you can back up the lie you just posted, please factually quote me saying that this is about the blacks in the 50s. we would love to read it.

Facts defeat your post again (im gonna have to put this fact in my sig if i keep replying to the same posts)
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Heh, "Denial, it's not just a river in Egypt" (it's really only deserving of a cliche.) Some cannot think outside certain limits....like how discrimination crosses boundaries of time, individual status, large and small act, etc.

Lursa said:
A piece of pie in a restaurant is not cake either. Pie isnt a right, is it? But it is a parallel claim of discrimination.

Denying Jews entrance to the beach on a private lake isnt a piece of cake either. Swimming isnt a right, is it? But it is a parallel claim of discrimination.

Denying a woman a job welding in a private company isnt a piece of cake either. Welding isnt a right. But it is a parallel claim of discrimination.
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Lursa said:
When Rosa Parks was arrested for not taking a seat in the back of the bus....was it about a bus ride?

When blacks had to use separate seating sections in theaters with whites....was it about crappier seats?

When employment signs at a cigar store said, "No Jews and no Irish need apply"... was it about selling tobacco?
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
So the photos of restaurants in the 50's are FACTS relating to the FACTS in this case? This is getting quite strange!
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LOL Agent J didnt post any pictures.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Lursa said:
????

Anyway, are you saying that a 'religious' moral objection is more important or has more legal standing than any other type of moral objection? That something can only be an abomination for a religious person? Are you specfiying Christians?

The point is....the bakery owner objected based on his moral objections...it was religious based. Religious or not, there are people that have moral objections against gays and *they may not discriminate against them based on that.*

(And I'm a Christian and didnt see anything insulting towards my religion in my post.)
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Well, I am trying to make the distinction that issue of gay marriage is different than being black (and, for clarity, the issue of gay marriage is different than being gay). I am trying to say there is a legitimate moral component to this that deserves some respect... this is not simply a matter of the baker being ignorant and bigoted. The baker has some basis for his position his position here... and what we are dealing with is a conflict between civil law and moral law. I am trying to raise the intellectual bar here, which to this point seems to want to dismiss the guy as bigot, similar to those that stood against blacks at the University of Alabama (etc.).... I am trying to say this has a different dimension to it....
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
1.)So the photos of restaurants in the 50's are FACTS relating to the FACTS in this case?
2.)This is getting quite strange!
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translation: you got nothing
1.) FYI i dindt post any photos
2.) no its normal for your post to get destroyed by facts

FACTS defeat your post again

let us know when you have and facts that support the lie you posted and when you can factually quote me saying what you falsely claimed i did
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Lursa said:
Heh, "Denial, it's not just a river in Egypt" (it's really only deserving of a cliche.) Some cannot think outside certain limits....like how discrimination crosses boundaries of time, individual status, large and small act, etc.
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no biggie its always entertaining to see posts lose to facts over and over again and the fact remains your post was accurate and true.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Lursa said:
LOL Agent J didnt post any pictures.
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there you go again using facts, you silly goose you
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

upsideguy said:
Well, I am trying to make the distinction that issue of gay marriage is different than being black (and, for clarity, the issue of gay marriage is different than being gay).

1.) I am trying to say there is a legitimate moral component to this that deserves some respect...
2.) this is not simply a matter of the baker being ignorant and bigoted.
3.) The baker has some basis for his position his position here... and what we are dealing with is a conflict between civil law and moral law.

4.) I am trying to raise the intellectual bar here,
5.) which to this point seems to want to dismiss the guy as bigot, similar to those that stood against blacks at the University of Alabama (etc.).... I am trying to say this has a different dimension to it....
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1.) based on what facts? who determines it deserves respect and it should trump individual freedoms. rights and law? and why not when religion is used against minorities, women, others religion and other things? why just this?
2.) since he knowingly broke the laws and made himself a criminal i disagree also since he treated people as lessers id say thats bigoted
3.) read 1 again and subjective moral law is meaningless to civil/legal and equal rights
4.) cant do that when you are ignoring facts and being hypocritical claiming THIS has logic but other cases where religion is used does not and you cant answer why
5.) it doesnt have a different dimension that you have shown yet, if you can show one ill totally agree
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

upsideguy said:
Well, I am trying to make the distinction that issue of gay marriage is different than being black (and, for clarity, the issue of gay marriage is different than being gay). I am trying to say there is a legitimate moral component to this that deserves some respect... this is not simply a matter of the baker being ignorant and bigoted. The baker has some basis for his position his position here... and what we are dealing with is a conflict between civil law and moral law. I am trying to raise the intellectual bar here, which to this point seems to want to dismiss the guy as bigot, similar to those that stood against blacks at the University of Alabama (etc.).... I am trying to say this has a different dimension to it....
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I am not one of the people crowing he's a bigot. I understand where it conflicts with his moral beliefs.

What you dont seem to understand is that it is still of the same importance, legally, as when anyone was discriminated against in the past. No more, but also no less. Just because you or the baker dont value the gay's rights, the GOVT recognizes those rights as the same. Morality is a judgement that you, the baker, and anyone else is allowed to make. But when it comes to a protected class, ALL are still to be treated the same.

So even if it is a 'legitimate moral component,' it doesnt comply with the laws of the state or the business license he signed. (And again....many people felt justified in their 'moral objections' to blacks...and how does that look to (most of) us now?

Lursa said:
IThat was not about slavery AT ALL. It was about how black people were treated in American society. They had separate laws....were treated like 2nd class citizens, they were not served in the same businesses or in the same manner as white Americans. They were discriminated against based on their race.

As shown by the OP, this is now a very similar issue to that which gays are fighting. They are being discriminated against because of their sexual orientation.

You may disagree that sexual orientation isnt deserving of being a protected class but there is no way to avoid the FACT that it is indeed a civil rights issue.

Edit: Blacks werent owed their civil rights because of slavery. They deserved their civil rights because they deserved to be treated EQUALLY.
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
It's a disingenuous argument to say the least. Yes I know the baker catered to the entire community all sorts of cakes/confections, just not gay wedding cakes due to religious convictions. Did you catch my post about the proposed legislation that will protect the rights of people like the baker and it has support from BOTH parties!
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No, i missed it but I'll check it out. It's legislation that is definitely required so that is good news.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Lursa said:
I am not one of the people crowing he's a bigot. I understand where it conflicts with his moral beliefs.

What you dont seem to understand is that it is still of the same importance, legally, as when anyone was discriminated against in the past. No more, but also no less. Just because you or the baker dont value the gay's rights, the GOVT recognizes those rights as the same. Morality is a judgement that you, the baker, and anyone else is allowed to make. But when it comes to a protected class, ALL are still to be treated the same.

So even if it is a 'legitimate moral component,' it doesnt comply with the laws of the state or the business license he signed. (And again....many people felt justified in their 'moral objections' to blacks...and how does that look to (most of) us now?
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AMEN! and the facts will set you free!

also on a side not and this is just my opinion but as a christian myself i see ZERO moral conflict here providing a cake for people, he wont be commiting any sins he wont go to hell for this

also as a christian its hard to have any remorse for a person that chooses to play in the public realm, open a public access business that has the same rules and laws for ALL OF US and think he get special rights and gets to just break the law because he feels like it. Sorry he has nobody to blame but himself.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

AGENT J said:
more off topic ranting and failed insults :shrug": nothing has changed the point that your statement was factually wrong
let me know when you have anything that changes this fact
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Please let us know the last time Colorado spoke for the whole country.:roll:
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

AGENT J said:
translation: you got nothing
1.) FYI i dindt post any photos
2.) no its normal for your post to get destroyed by facts

FACTS defeat your post again

let us know when you have and facts that support the lie you posted and when you can factually quote me saying what you falsely claimed i did
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I felt certain you had compared what happened with this baker to discrimination against Blacks in past decades. Am I wrong?

Please quote where I said you posted any photos. I went by your comment beneath those photos..
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Rocketman said:
Please let us know the last time Colorado spoke for the whole country.:roll:
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never said it did another strawman and lie destroyed by facts, if you disagree simply quote me saying that
nothing has changed the point that your statement was factually wrong
let me know when you have anything that changes this fact
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
1.) I felt certain you had compared what happened with this baker to discrimination against Blacks in past decades. Am I wrong?

2.) Please quote where I said you posted any photos. I went by your comment beneath those photos..
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1.) so you still have no quote and cant back up your lie, thats what i thought, lets us know when you can.

2.)as for the photo please tell us what comment beneath them you were talking about and how that would ever factually translate to anything being discussed here, even other posters laughed at that post. It read like you thought i posted photos so the issue is yours.
 
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

AGENT J said:
1.) so you still have no quote and cant back up your lie, thats what i thought, lets us know when you can.

2.)as for the photo please tell us what comment beneath them you were talking about and how that would ever factually translate to anything beigfn discussed here even other posters laughed at that post and it read like you though i posted photos so the issue is yours.
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Zoooooooooooooooooommm! Wow that backpeddle was so fast it went by in a blur.

Shame on you for responding to that Vesper!
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Lursa said:

Zoooooooooooooooooommm! 1.)Wow that backpeddle was so fast it went by in a blur.

2.) Shame on you for responding to that Vesper!
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shhhhhhhhhhhh of course his post was a complete back pedal but theres a means to me letting it slide

2.) dont know what you meant here lol

youll see it all realtes to the topic and theres one question that factually proves that post wrong AGAIN.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

AGENT J said:
1.) so you still have no quote and cant back up your lie, thats what i thought, lets us know when you can.

2.)as for the photo please tell us what comment beneath them you were talking about and how that would ever factually translate to anything beigfn discussed here even other posters laughed at that post and it read like you though i posted photos so the issue is yours.
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Lies again?? That last sentence suggests the teachers unions ripped you right off.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

AGENT J said:
shhhhhhhhhhhh of course his post was a complete back pedal but theres a means to me letting it slide

2.) dont know what you meant here lol

youll see it all realtes to the topic and theres one question that factually proves that post wrong AGAIN.
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The pics were Vesper's. Apparently you were being scolded for responding to the pics she posted, since in the new version you werent the one that posted them.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
Lies again?? That last sentence suggests the teachers unions ripped you right off.
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still nothing huh just more failed insults. PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC.

this is the lie you posted to refresh your memory.
Grant said:
There are still a few around who think this is about Blacks in the 50's.
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we are waiting for you to back this lie up and quote me saying "this is about the blacks in the 50s"? let us know when you can and when you have ANYTHING ON TOPIC to back up your posts.
 
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