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Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

quote him all you like, your crying is enjoyable, his ruling would not hold water here so I could care less. LOL

no crying just like pointing out that your post was 100% factually wrong, remind me who attacked the facts? that was you so . . . . .

please continue to post lies though

when you have anything on topic and any facts to support your proven wrong statement let us know
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

If it applies to drinking fountains and restaurants then it applies to cake...

It should relate only to government and public services, not private. If the government bakery didn't want to supply them with a cake, OK I'd understand the argument. If a private business doesn't want to supply them with a cake well that's their prerogative. Stupid as it reduces income, and if people protest and boycott you could go out of business. But that's also part of the point.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Run the experiment DD. Go out and don't comply with the government, keep it up and resist as much as possible. Let me know what happens. I'll be waiting.

Okie Dokie..........you have demonstrated enough for me to know your kind....thank you.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

1.)It's about discrimination over cake.
2.)Someone had cake, someone else wanted to buy it, the first person said no, the second person took it to court.
3.)Nothing you say will change the fact.

1.) nope its about discrimination over sexual orientation
2.) they took them to court because of discrimination
3.) i agree nothing will change the fact its not about cake as the court case and rulling proves that fact and destroys your false claim again

its about discrimination, nothing changes this fact, thats what the court cases was drafted on, thats what the ruling consisted off.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Individually, we are local, not global.

Environmental laws where brought up simply to refute your blanket statement.

But it didn't. Look at everything government funds and produces, they are huge polluters. War ain't something that just poofs.

While it would be accurate to say that aggregated corporation can exceed boundaries of limited individual, it is not to say they possess the same inherent ability as government. Nor does it mean that there isn't legitimate regulation when it comes to the rights and liberties of the People.

I fear it is you who is attempting to oversimplify the system.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

1.) nope its about discrimination over sexual orientation
2.) they took them to court because of discrimination
3.) i agree nothing will change the fact its not about cake as the court case and rulling proves that fact and destroys your false claim again

its about discrimination, nothing changes this fact, thats what the court cases was drafted on, thats what the ruling consisted off.

It was discrimination over cake. Nothing more, nothing less. No false claim since this was indeed about cake. You can keep saying 2+2=fish, but it doesn't make it so.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

That isn't an order... that is an observation made in his decision. Big difference.

Bovine feces.

The baker was ORDERED to make wedding cakes for gay couples.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Ex Post Facto is a legal term, it means "after the fact."

In law, this means that you cannot declare an act illegal after the fact. IF a person opens a bakery in 1995 and complies with the laws, a change in 2013 has no retroactive authority.

Correct. A law is only effective from the date it becomes active forward from the date. Since the law was passed and became effective prior to the date of the event, Ex Post Facto has no bearing.


Oh, do tell - which LAWS did the baker break?

Section 24-34-601 of the Colorado Code

(2) It is a discriminatory practice and unlawful for a person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group, because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation or, directly or indirectly, to publish, circulate, issue, display, post, or mail any written, electronic, or printed communication, notice, or advertisement that indicates that the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation will be refused, withheld from, or denied an individual or that an individual's patronage or presence at a place of public accommodation is unwelcome, objectionable, unacceptable, or undesirable because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry.​

When was he arrested? What were the terms of his indictment?

Something can be against the law (in this case Colorado Statutes concerning business practices) but not be a criminal offense. Since it's not a criminal offense there is not arrest or indictment. There is a Civil proceeding.

Will he face the gulag?

He won't. Civil code doesn't result in jail time. IIRC, in this case the ruling was simply an injunction from continued discrimination. However he did face fines for each confirmed offense, money that would then have gone to the filer of the complaint.

24-34-602. Penalty and civil liability.

(1) Any person who violates section 24-34-601 shall be fined not less than fifty dollars nor more than five hundred dollars for each violation. A person aggrieved by the violation of section 24-34-601 shall bring an action in any court of competent jurisdiction in the county where the violation occurred. Upon finding a violation, the court shall order the defendant to pay the fine to the aggrieved party.​


>>>>
 
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

That isn't an order... that is an observation made in his decision. Big difference.

DING DING DING DING correct


the owner wasnt even fined he was just given a cease and desist order to stop breaking the law and conducting illegal discrimination.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Okie Dokie..........you have demonstrated enough for me to know your kind....thank you.

As have you. You cannot even admit to the very foundations of force. Bye bye, pander your emotional, drama queen, dishonest arguments elsewhere.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

DING DING DING DING correct


the owner wasnt even fined he was just given a cease and desist order to stop breaking the law and conducting illegal discrimination.

Yup, government force to make them prepare cake against their will. I hope the cake is worth it.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

1.) so instead of posting any facts to support your failed claims you go off topic, become uncivl and post failed insult. oh well
let me know when you want to stay on topic and have and facts that support you
2.) and yet the rulign still factually proves you wrong
3.) thank you for posting that, theres NOTHING in there that says the judge forced him to make a cake, in fact the judge did not do that, he only stated that the owner making cakes for a gay wedding would not hurt his business. You should read it again. Thank you for proving yourself wrong
4.) yes you posted a lie as you just proved, thanks

facts defeat your post again

It's like talking to a two year old

Come back if you decide to engage honestly.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

It was discrimination over cake. Nothing more, nothing less. No false claim since this was indeed about cake. You can keep saying 2+2=fish, but it doesn't make it so.

ooooooooh so now it IS discrimination but its over cake, nice back pedal but no one will buy it because your post was already proved wrong.
Like you have been told muiltiple times buy many posters the cake is meaningless and its not about cake its about discrimination.

i agree, what i say doesnt make it so but the court case and rulling make your post 100% factually wrong as proven.

this fact will never change.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Yup, government force to make them prepare cake against their will. I hope the cake is worth it.

nope government protecting the rights of others that the criminal owner violated
much worth it! justice and rights win and are protected!
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

It's like talking to a two year old

Come back if you decide to engage honestly.

another failed insult, nothing on topic and more incivility, oh well

let us know when you are ready to stay on topic and have any facts to support the false claims in your posts, we will be here waiting.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

ooooooooh so now it IS discrimination but its over cake, nice back pedal but no one will buy it because your post was already proved wrong.
Like you have been told muiltiple times buy many posters the cake is meaningless and its not about cake its about discrimination.

i agree, what i say doesnt make it so but the court case and rulling make your post 100% factually wrong as proven.

this fact will never change.

I never said it wasn't discrimination. What backpeddling are you talking about? Please keep your arguments honest. It's that this isn't a form of discrimination that infringes upon rights. You ain't got right to cake.

I know what the court said, this site isn't SupportTheCourts.com, it's debatepolitics.com That means we're not all going to agree with current law or progression or politics and that we will debate those things. Your little pedantic ramblings and appeal to authority (logical fallacy, BTW) mean nothing. End of story, you ain't got a right to cake.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

nope government protecting the rights of others that the criminal owner violated
much worth it! justice and rights win and are protected!

What rights? Someone's rights to another person's cake and labor? That doesn't exist...well OK it seems that it does given this case. But it's not proper use of government force.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

It doesn't "Codemn" our rights at all. There is no "natural" or Constitutional right to engage in discrimination. Period.

Do you understand the idea of precedent? The idea that it is ok for the government to say who and why a person can refuse service does NOT set a good legal precedent. It is a legal foothold that can be exploited later. This isn't just about "natural rights to engage in discrimination." It is also about government involvement in private affairs. If this company is not publicly traded...it SHOULD be the right of the person running it to refuse service. Even if that makes the person a bigoted moron because the money he is receiving is the exact same color and creed as any other money he puts in his cash register.

See. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I am a bigot. I think that there is a MUCH better way to approach this issue. I think a boycott would have been MUCH more effective and would have set a better example than bogging down the court system with a case that basically says, "We don't care why you don't wish to serve us...you have no choice." Screw that. If I don't want serve you...it should be my choice not too. It shouldn't be up to the government. It is a PRIVATE business which means it is run by ONE person. It is THAT person's property, and it should be subject to the same laws as private property in terms of who IS or IS NOT allowed to be on it.

precedent legal definition of precedent. precedent synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

1.)I never said it wasn't discrimination. What backpeddling are you talking about?
2.)Please keep your arguments honest.
3.)It's that this isn't a form of discrimination that infringes upon rights. You ain't got right to cake.
4.)
I know what the court said, this site isn't SupportTheCourts.com, it's debatepolitics.com That means we're not all going to agree with current law or progression or politics and that we will debate those things.
5.) Your little pedantic ramblings mean nothing. End of story, you ain't got a right to cake.

1.) you posted it was about cake muiltiple posters told you its about discrimination, your post was factually wrong. its about discrimination and the cake doesnt matter.
2.) i did and the thread proves this and that your post was and is factually wrong
3.) correct and this strawman and factually wrong statement fails every time you post it, nobody ever said they had a right to cake. Hence your stawman fails.
4.) this is not an opinion, its not subjective. the case was based on discrimination and the ruling was based on discriminating, not cake, there fore your statement is and was factually wrong

no amount of double talk, reframing, or backpedaling will change this fact it was about discrimination and the cakae is meaningless proven by facts.
5.) that they mean is you are factually wrong as FACTS prove and you have nothign but "nuhuh"
6.) correct good thing nobody made that claim, thanks for proving your starwman wrong again

sorry this fact bothers you but its a fact non the less and yo have ZERO facts to show otherwsie
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Not the point. The straw man Disneydude was erecting was based on the idea the Baker agreed to serve homosexuals buy opening a business. It's an absurd claim on it's face. but even IF we were to accept it, the ex post facto provision would render the argument null.

Don't quote me, argue my point, then shift to what someone else said. This business owner renewed his license which means he entered into a contract, with the State, in which he acknowledged and agreed to abide by the laws which govern business including Colorado Revised Statute Title 24 Article 34 which clearly states it is unlawful for a place of public accommodation to discriminate in the offering of goods and services on the basis of sexual orientation. There's nothing Ex Post Facto about it.

You must have a unique 14th amendment.

No, I just understand how it is applied.

And that trumps the 13th Amendment? Damn...Bunk.

You are welcome to explain how willfully entering into a contract with the State constitutes slavery.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

It is a legal foothold that can be exploited later.

No whammy, No whammy, No whammy, STOP!

This is the end all be all. All these people complaining about cake now are going to get screwed later on. Those too lazy to perform their civic and moral duty of intelligent interaction will eventually feel the same sting of inequality by the government their apathy encouraged. Run to government, run to government, run to government; it will take everything and more. Instead of having the resolve and morality to support our consciousness ourselves, we punt to the government. And those jerks have Aaron Rodgers behind center. They are good at incremental-ism.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

1.) you posted it was about cake muiltiple posters told you its about discrimination, your post was factually wrong. its about discrimination and the cake doesnt matter.
2.) i did and the thread proves this and that your post was and is factually wrong
3.) correct and this strawman and factually wrong statement fails every time you post it, nobody ever said they had a right to cake. Hence your stawman fails.
4.) this is not an opinion, its not subjective. the case was based on discrimination and the ruling was based on discriminating, not cake, there fore your statement is and was factually wrong

no amount of double talk, reframing, or backpedaling will change this fact it was about discrimination and the cakae is meaningless proven by facts.
5.) that they mean is you are factually wrong as FACTS prove and you have nothign but "nuhuh"
6.) correct good thing nobody made that claim, thanks for proving your starwman wrong again

sorry this fact bothers you but its a fact non the less and yo have ZERO facts to show otherwsie

It is about cake. The discrimination is secondary in this case since it involves no rights. But I never once said it wasn't discrimination. Please try to make more honest arguments in the future.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

No...actually its about someone wanting to set their own rules and trying to hide behind the guise of religion in order to shield themselves so that they can impose their bigotry. That's it.

... Should a Doctor that finds abortion morally reprehensible be compelled to perform an abortion? I don't think its much different than a baker that finds gay marriage morally reprehensible refusing to bake a cake that is to be used in celebration of this act that he finds morally wrong.

Whether you chose to like it or not, there is very strong religious grounds for finding gay marriage morally wrong. ... and we ain't talking some fringe wackadoo religious sect, we are talking the Bible, the Law according to God according to Christians and Jews (supposedly 85% of America thinks they are either Christian or Jewish).
 
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

... Should a Doctor that finds abortion morally reprehensible be compelled to perform an abortion?

Different issue. If he is in the business of performing abortions, he cannot say that I will perform the service for whites, but not blacks. THAT is more akin to the situation that we are talking about.
Your argument would be like walking into a bakery and demanding that they provide you with a 20 pound salmon. They would have a right in that situation to say...uh....we are a bakery...we don't sell fish.
Understand the distinction?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

... Should a Doctor that finds abortion morally reprehensible be compelled to perform an abortion?

That one would actually depend on the immediate danger to the woman and the availability of service.
 
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