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Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Grant said:
What about the discrimination against the man who didn't want to bake the cake because of his religious beliefs? Is his rights lesser than others? Should he be forced to bake a cake because someone demands it?

Again, you drift away to other areas which have nothing to do with this case. Focus, Man, Focus!!
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How is that discrimination? Was it "discrimination" to require that bigoted restaurant owners serve black customers? No. Is it discrimination to require a baker to serve gay patrons? No. It is a lot of things, but there is no discrimination there...unless some were allowed to discriminate against black/gay patrons while others were forced to serve them...THAT would be discrimination. Simply requiring them to comply with the law is not discrimination.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

AGENT J said:
1) freedom and rights and equality were actually protected thanks to this rulling
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"Protected" by imposing involuntary servitude on an unwilling participant.

Because a person has a want, you and the activist court demand that empowers that person to force another to labor on their behalf, against their will.

We used to term this "slavery." But then, it was you democrats promoting that, as well.

2.) this strawman complete fails and facts destroy it since the owner is still 100% free to have his beliefs
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He is "free" to obey?

Dayum..

3.) this strawman complete fails and facts destroy it since the owner has the same rights has ALL OF US and just like us he isnt allowed to break the law and infringe on the rights of others
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This "owner" is compelled to labor against his will. If that is the same "rights" as all of us, we need to take up arms.

4.) go for it it will help us who respect laws and rights identify you
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You clearly have contempt for the constitution. And Obama has already identified his enemies list, sicking the IRS and DOD on them.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Grant said:
All that's necessary is to call someone a bigot and then shout them down. No debate necessary.

No wonder Obama raised the age of children to be 26 years old. America is in danger of becoming a nation of shouting, whining adolescents. Instead of shouting, why not try holding your breath until you get your way?

The flip side of your argument is that everyone would have the same smarts as you.
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The only ones "Whining" and "Crying" here are the bigoted baker and his supporters. Everyone else understands that you have to follow the laws in this country and that discrimination is unlawful. Just because you stomp your feets and say "I don't wanna...I don't wanna....I don't wanna"...doesn't change the law.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

AGENT J said:
nope not at all but thanks for supplying yet another complete failed and false strawman
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You claim that others have a 'right" to force a bakery owner to labor against his will - IF that is true, I have the right to force you to labor against your will.

{

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.[1]

}
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Uncensored2008 said:
Yea!

We are done with freedom once and for all.

Anyone who thinks they are free to hold their own beliefs rather than obey federal masters has been taught a lesson.

If you "own" a bakery, you still have no rights, because YOU are owned by your overlords.

It's time to start shooting you motherf&*$ers - seriously.
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LOL....you guys are such drama queens. You would think that you never had to follow a law in your life. Anti-discrimination laws do not take away your freedom to hold your own beliefs. You remain free to me a bigot or not. What you are NOT free to do however is use your religion as a shield to try to avoid complying with the law. That doesn't take away any of your right to believe whatever you want.
If you own a bakery, you have the same rights as every other bakery owner in this country. If you don't want to serve cookies, don't make them. If you don't want to serve croissants, don't make them....but you can't say we only serve brownies to white people or we don't sell pie to women...or we don't sell cakes to gays. You open your doors to the public, you have to comply with the laws of this country. Don't like it? Don't open a business. Simple as that.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Uncensored2008 said:
You claim that others have a 'right" to force a bakery owner to labor against his will - IF that is true, I have the right to force you to labor against your will.

{

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.[1]

}
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LOL....now the desperation is climbing exponentially. Now requiring the bigots to comply with the law is slavery? Wow.....that is just absolutely ridiculous to the highest degree.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Uncensored2008 said:
1.)"Protected" by imposing involuntary servitude on an unwilling participant.
2.) Because a person has a want, you and the activist court demand that empowers that person to force another to labor on their behalf, against their will.
3.) We used to term this "slavery." But then, it was you democrats promoting that, as well.
4.) He is "free" to obey?
5.)Dayum..
6.) This "owner" is compelled to labor against his will. If that is the same "rights" as all of us, we need to take up arms.
7.) You clearly have contempt for the constitution.
8.) And Obama has already identified his enemies list, sicking the IRS and DOD on them.
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1.) nice opinion but this strawman complete fails and facts destroy it since thats not what happened at all
2.) See #2
3.) See #2 and not a democrat
4.) so when one argument complete fails and gets destroyed by facts you simply make up another? got it. He is free to have his beliefs and he is free not to break the law, make himself a criminal and infringe on the rights of others. He chooses to obey or disobey anythign he wants another strawman that fails
5.) yep facts are tough to beat as you just found out
6.) nice opinion but this strawman complete fails and facts destroy it since he is not, but please feel free to make up more fantasy
7.) the constitution is what worked here, read the ruling its you that doesnt like it
8.) nice random meaningless rant to you have anything on topic and that can be supported by facts?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Uncensored2008 said:
1.)You claim that others have a 'right" to force a bakery owner to labor against his will - IF that is true, I have the right to force you to labor against your will.

{

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.[1]

}
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nope never made that claim one time, sorry posting a lie wont make it true. If you disagree simply quote me saying the lie you just made up

your strawman completely fails and gets destroyed by facts again
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Uncensored2008 said:
You claim that others have a 'right" to force a bakery owner to labor against his will - IF that is true, I have the right to force you to labor against your will.
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It drives me crazy that people go into a profession knowing what is ethically, professionally, and/or legally obligated of them then make a bunch of noise when they're punished for not meeting those obligations. Just because you're punished for breaking laws you agreed to abide by in your acquisition and retainment of a business license does not mean you are being persecuted or, as you imply, enslaved. If you object to the legal requirements associated with owning and operating a business which offers public services then don't become a business owner, at the very least, take your lumps silently or become a non-profit.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

disneydude said:
Now you wanna play obtuse? The discrimination is in the business owner refusing to serve people that they find "icky". Why do you continue to support bigoted white restaurant owners who refuse to serve blacks or bigoted bakers who refuse to serve gays? Why should the blacks or the gay have to go down the street to another restaurant or drinking fountain or bakery simply because some bigot wants to claim "religion" as a shield to follow the law? Bigotry in the name of religion is still bigotry.
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It's a cake, it's not like it's medical care or voting. Cake. Someone else owns it, another wants it. But the person who owns it can sell it to whomever they wish.

This presumption of ownership over private property and labor is a bit disturbing. People thinking everyone else around them OWES them service.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Napoleon said:
It drives me crazy that people go into a profession knowing what is ethically, professionally, and/or legally obligated of them then make a bunch of noise when they're punished for not meeting those obligations. Just because you're punished for breaking laws you agreed to abide by in your acquisition and retainment of a business license does not mean you are being persecuted or, as you imply, enslaved. If you object to the legal requirements associated with owning and operating a business which offers public services then don't become a business owner, at the very least, take your lumps silently or become a non-profit.
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yep common sense at its finest

yep, rules and laws were broken, crime was committed and a light slap on the hand (not even) was given out
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Ikari said:
It's a cake, it's not like it's medical care or voting. Cake. Someone else owns it, another wants it. But the person who owns it can sell it to whomever they wish.

This presumption of ownership over private property and labor is a bit disturbing. People thinking everyone else around them OWES them service.
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Same could be said for lunch at a "whites only" lunch counter. There is no "presumption of ownership over private property", there is however an expectation that businesses in this country comply with anti-discrimination laws.
It isn't about "people thinking everyone else around them OWES them service"...its about our society demanding equal and fair treatment that doesn't discriminate against a class of people simply because a bigot thinks they are "icky". Not a lot to ask.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Napoleon said:
It drives me crazy that people go into a profession knowing what is ethically, professionally, and/or legally obligated of them then make a bunch of noise when they're punished for not meeting those obligations. Just because you're punished for breaking laws you agreed to abide by in your acquisition and retainment of a business license does not mean you are being persecuted or, as you imply, enslaved. If you object to the legal requirements associated with owning and operating a business which offers public services then don't become a business owner, at the very least, take your lumps silently or become a non-profit.
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Its a new tactic among the extreme fringe right-wingers and so called "Christian" evangelists. Cry "persecution" whenever your bigotry is exposed. It hasn't worked for them yet....so they just stomp their feet more and whine louder.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

disneydude said:
LOL....you guys are such drama queens. You would think that you never had to follow a law in your life. Anti-discrimination laws do not take away your freedom to hold your own beliefs. You remain free to me a bigot or not. What you are NOT free to do however is use your religion as a shield to try to avoid complying with the law. That doesn't take away any of your right to believe whatever you want.
If you own a bakery, you have the same rights as every other bakery owner in this country. If you don't want to serve cookies, don't make them. If you don't want to serve croissants, don't make them....but you can't say we only serve brownies to white people or we don't sell pie to women...or we don't sell cakes to gays. You open your doors to the public, you have to comply with the laws of this country. Don't like it? Don't open a business. Simple as that.
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Look, you are engaged in a war on civil rights. As Joe Biden says "That's a big fu^&ing deal."

And no, denying economic freedom to those who oppose involuntary servitude is not an answer.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

disneydude said:
Same could be said for lunch at a "whites only" lunch counter. There is no "presumption of ownership over private property", there is however an expectation that businesses in this country comply with anti-discrimination laws.
It isn't about "people thinking everyone else around them OWES them service"...its about our society demanding equal and fair treatment that doesn't discriminate against a class of people simply because a bigot thinks they are "icky". Not a lot to ask.
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Exactly. People are lazy and don't want to do what's right and then they go cry to government to use force against the rights of others. You know how you end "Whites only" businesses? You don't shop there. Protest, boycott, raise awareness. Intelligent consumerism is how you servo the system. You don't call down the guns of government against the property rights and labor of others.

It's 100% that you think you are OWED their property and their labor, that is why you use government force against them. Not the intelligent and proper method of local community activism and participation and informed consuming.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

disneydude said:
LOL....now the desperation is climbing exponentially. Now requiring the bigots to comply with the law is slavery? Wow.....that is just absolutely ridiculous to the highest degree.
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Forcing others to work against their will is slavery - that is a fact.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Uncensored2008 said:
Look, you are engaged in a war on civil rights. As Joe Biden says "That's a big fu^&ing deal."

And no, denying economic freedom to those who oppose involuntary servitude is not an answer.
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The only one in a "war on civil rights" are the bigots who haven't realized that they've already lost the battle. BTW....labeling it "involuntary servitude" is just plain silly.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Uncensored2008 said:
Forcing others to work against their will is slavery - that is a fact.
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So ridiculous....doesn't even merit a response....carry on.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

AGENT J said:
1.) nice opinion but this strawman complete fails and facts destroy it since thats not what happened at all
2.) See #2
3.) See #2 and not a democrat
4.) so when one argument complete fails and gets destroyed by facts you simply make up another? got it. He is free to have his beliefs and he is free not to break the law, make himself a criminal and infringe on the rights of others. He chooses to obey or disobey anythign he wants another strawman that fails
5.) yep facts are tough to beat as you just found out
6.) nice opinion but this strawman complete fails and facts destroy it since he is not, but please feel free to make up more fantasy
7.) the constitution is what worked here, read the ruling its you that doesnt like it
8.) nice random meaningless rant to you have anything on topic and that can be supported by facts?
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We'll put this down as you have no rational response.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Ikari said:
Exactly. People are lazy and don't want to do what's right and then they go cry to government to use force against the rights of others. You know how you end "Whites only" businesses? You don't shop there. Protest, boycott, raise awareness. Intelligent consumerism is how you servo the system. You don't call down the guns of government against the property rights and labor of others.

It's 100% that you think you are OWED their property and their labor, that is why you use government force against them. Not the intelligent and proper method of local community activism and participation and informed consuming.
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That''s not necessarily true. I suspect that there are enough bigots around that would patronize the company, just look at Chik-fil-A. The bottom line is, we as a society have a right to say that we don't want bigoted businesses in our communities. You either follow the law or you don't open a business. Simple as that.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

disneydude said:
So ridiculous....doesn't even merit a response....carry on.
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It's fundamentally what you are doing. It's not quite akin due to some amount of compensation, so it's more like serfdom. But you are looking to force people to labor against their will through the use of government force against the individual. You should at least be cognisant of what you advocate.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

AGENT J said:
nope never made that claim one time, sorry posting a lie wont make it true. If you disagree simply quote me saying the lie you just made up

your strawman completely fails and gets destroyed by facts again
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Again, you are supporting a federal judge compelling a bakery owner to labor against his will - why should you not be likewise compelled?

We will either have a free society, or we will not. IF we are free, then who we chose to do business with, sell to, or buy from, is our own business.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Ikari said:
It's fundamentally what you are doing. It's not quite akin due to some amount of compensation, so it's more like serfdom. But you are looking to force people to labor against their will through the use of government force against the individual. You should at least be cognisant of what you advocate.
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No one is forcing them to work against their will. They already offer the service, they just don't want to do it for someone they think is "icky". Sorry...just like the bigot restauranteurs.....you have to comply with anti-discrimination laws if you want to do business. They knew the rules....they just chose not to follow them. We can't pick and choose which laws we want to follow and then hide behind our religion on the ones we don't like. It doesn't work that way.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Uncensored2008 said:
We'll put this down as you have no rational response.
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translation: you still have no facts to back up any of the fallacies and and failed strawman you posted.
Thats what i thought. Facts defeat your post again
When you have any facts supporting your false claims please post them
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

disneydude said:
That''s not necessarily true. I suspect that there are enough bigots around that would patronize the company, just look at Chik-fil-A. The bottom line is, we as a society have a right to say that we don't want bigoted businesses in our communities. You either follow the law or you don't open a business. Simple as that.
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OK. So every one in awhile a dumb company survives. It won't on the whole, and there are many options to still choose from. You do not have right to other people's property or labor. You use guns against free exercise and choice, that is just the facts.

This is supposed to be a free country, and you want to turn it into an internment camp. PC police at every corner making sure people don't think bad things. In free society you will get some people who are jerks and some who are dumb and some who are racist and perhaps out of those some may make businesses. It's just a consequence of freedom. Nowhere does it say you have to try to frequent those businesses. Nowhere does it say you cannot assemble and protest and boycott. But you just want to use guns and force against free exercise of right, you demand the use of other people's labor and demand service from everyone. Pathetic.
 
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