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Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647]

Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

CriticalThought said:
This had nothing to do with property, it had to do with services.

Your right to "free exercise" of religion ends when it interferes with the rights of others. Court precedent allows a state to limit your "free exercise" of religion in the interest of a "compelling state interest" such as nondiscrimination as long as it isn't too burdensome. The debate here is the extent to which people have "free exercise" of their religious liberty and whether the state is imposing too much of a burden on this baker by trying to push its interest of nondiscrimination.
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The constitution doesnt guarantee you to be entitled to the services of private businesses.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Phil_Osophy said:
I would be willing to compromise there.
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Ok so good, I'll continue to fight for gun rights and you continue to fight for gay rights. Good to know.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

TheNextEra said:
And your explanation is we can discriminate against who we want, when we want. Sorry, but that isn't the case.
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I explained the reason as well. Because you arent entitled to other peoples businesses or property and nobody is forced to patronize a business. You have nothing to say contrary other than "big daddy govt doesnt think so, and big daddy is right".
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Phil_Osophy said:
If they must follow the constitution, the gun free zone should be illegal.
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please take a look at my avatar
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Grant said:
You nailed it, Vesper, and please understand that you are not alone in recognizing this movement. Millions of people everywhere are waking up to this craziness, and should before all personal freedoms disappear. The Founders recognized this potential for evil, designing the Constitution accordingly while George Orwell, as usual, summed it up nicely.
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If the personal freedoms (and I say 'if) were lost, they were not lost because gays have been considered a protected class in some states. They are not 'the cause.' The 'cause' was the fight for civil rights for women and then blacks and that led to the development of the anti-discrimination laws and policies we have today. The gays are not 'to blame' for that. Every American has the right to fight for their civil rights. That does not mean every 'group' of Americans is justified.

Of course, many people were offended by the idea of women and blacks getting their civil rights recognized as well. I look back on those people as historical dinosaurs, ignorant and intolerant. I am saddened by the knowlege that future generations will look back at this time period and think the same of us. It's embarrassing.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

vesper said:
1.)What I do find appalling is those who are gay and those who support them will violate the rights of others because of their moral conscience will haul them into court and sue them because they refused to bake them a damn wedding cake when there are several bakeries in the area that would have obliged them.

2.)This whole thing stinks because those gays who are demanding rights are willing to trample the rights of others just to make an f-ing statement to force their relationships down the throats of those who morally find them wrong. Can you feel the f-ing love?????
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1.) factually never happened so no need to be appalled, if you disagree please post any FACTS that support this lie
2.) see #1

destroying these lies is funny
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

vesper said:
WTF does this have to do with someone's constitutional rights? I don't give a damn what gay people do in their bedroom, or how they are attracted to one another. What I do find appalling is those who are gay and those who support them will violate the rights of others because of their moral conscience will haul them into court and sue them because they refused to bake them a damn wedding cake when there are several bakeries in the area that would have obliged them. This whole thing stinks because those gays who are demanding rights are willing to trample the rights of others just to make an f-ing statement to force their relationships down the throats of those who morally find them wrong. Can you feel the f-ing love?????
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Great question. Begs the question...why do people want to discriminate against them?

Do you make moral judgements against blacks for being black? Against Jews for being Jews? How can they be who they are and NOT offend people like you?

If they werent being discriminated against or in need of those protections, *this thread wouldnt exist*.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Phil_Osophy said:
I explained the reason as well. Because you arent entitled to other peoples businesses or property and nobody is forced to patronize a business. You have nothing to say contrary other than "big daddy govt doesnt think so, and big daddy is right".
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And I explained it as you are not entitled to discriminate against people. You have nothing to say contrary other than "You cannot force me to not discriminate".

Guess what. Let's do a simple scenario to prove who is right. You open a "White only" business and find out what happens. simple enough. Truth to the test of what's allowed and what isn't.

We also have speeding laws, parking laws, etx. Go ahead and FIGHT THE POWER, see what happens son. Best of luck to you, I'll stick to reality.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
What harm was caused to these two men who didn't get their wedding cake from the baker? Are we talking hurt feelings here?
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What harm is caused to blacks who didn't get to eat at the "whites only" lunch counter? Are we talking hurt feelings here? Why is it ok with you for bigots to refuse service to people just because they think they are "icky"?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

CriticalThought said:
Here is where you are not getting it. Colorado law treats sexual orientation the same as race.
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He knows. He's been told on multiple pages.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Why do you think it is ok for a white business owner to refuse to serve blacks because their religion tells them that blacks are "icky". Why should they have to move down the street to have a friggin lunch and not find the need to stand up to the bigoted owner who wouldn't serve them because of moral conscience?
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Gays have never been counted as 3/5ths of a person as Blacks once were. To compare the two is absolutely ridiculous.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

vesper said:
WTF does this have to do with someone's constitutional rights? I don't give a damn what gay people do in their bedroom, or how they are attracted to one another. What I do find appalling is those who are gay and those who support them will violate the rights of others because of their moral conscience will haul them into court and sue them because they refused to bake them a damn wedding cake when there are several bakeries in the area that would have obliged them. This whole thing stinks because those gays who are demanding rights are willing to trample the rights of others just to make an f-ing statement to force their relationships down the throats of those who morally find them wrong. Can you feel the f-ing love?????
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Why do you find it "appalling" that those who are black and those who support them will violate the rights of others because of their moral conscience will haul them into court and sue them because they refused to serve them at their "White only" lunch counters...when there are several lunch counters in that area that would have obliged them. Why do you think that this whole thing stinks because blacks who are demanding rights are willing to trample the rights of others just to make a f-ing statement to force their race down the throats of those who morally find them disgusting.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
Gays have never been counted as 3/5ths of a person as Blacks once were. To compare the two is absolutely ridiculous.
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So you're ok with discrimination against gays, but not blacks? I thought you said you were for owners having the right to discriminate against ANYONE? Why the back peddling?
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

upsideguy said:
That is all very nice, except that gender preference has not been the same level of protected class as race, color, creed, sex or national origin. In fact, sexual preference is an all-together separate phenomenon as its the only one of those that is explicitly carved out by the Bible, which given our Judeo-Christian heritage, is significant.
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On this point I must agree with you, but the new view of the constitution makes that optional. You see, the new view is that the 14th amendment does whatever a judge wants it to do. Never mind that it makes the 15th and 19th (maybe even the 24th) amendments totally unnecessary. The new way of looking at the constitution is having carefully selected judges finding it to mean what it really should have said; constitutional amendment is now done by SCOTUS (re?)interpretation and precedent, not that nonsense actually defined as the constitutional amendment process.
 
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

Grant said:
Not being sold cake for religious reasons is the equivalent of slavery as well? Leftists are obviously doing the struggle, and deaths, for Black Liberation a great disservice but obviously are not intelligent enough to recognize it.
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We covered this many many pages back too...and you never responded to this:

Was it an insult to blacks that women fought for their civil rights? DId they compare their struggles to women?

It's not about the past wrongs. Blacks that never suffered in slavery gain the same rights...it's about doing the right thing, treating people EQUALLY in the present and future.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
Gays have never been counted as 3/5ths of a person as Blacks once were. To compare the two is absolutely ridiculous.
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Bigotry is bigotry is bigotry. Sorry.....
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Phil_Osophy said:
The constitution doesnt guarantee you to be entitled to the services of private businesses.
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Nobody in this case argued that the Constitution entitled anyone to the services of private businesses. That is a strawman.

What was argued in this case is that the state of Colorado had a legitimate and compelling state interest in promoting nondiscrimination. Supreme court precedent that interpreted the limits of free exercise of religion allows for a state to limit an individual's free exercise of religion if the state can prove a compelling state interest that is not too burdensome to the individual.

Why is it when folks like yourself say you want to talk about the Constitution, you are only interested in the 1791 vision, not the over two hundred years of court precedent that interprets the document and informs how it is carried out in practice today?
 
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Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
Gays have never been counted as 3/5ths of a person as Blacks once were. To compare the two is absolutely ridiculous.
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nobody said they were but they have been killed, beaten, fired, desowned, denied employment/housing etc
and the most important part is they have been denied equal, human and civil rights just like blacks and that what this discussion is about so the comparison is 100% accurate and factual.

Facts prove your post wrong again.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

Lursa said:
Great question. Begs the question...why do people want to discriminate against them?

Do you make moral judgements against blacks for being black? Against Jews for being Jews? How can they be who they are and NOT offend people like you?

If they werent being discriminated against or in need of those protections, *this thread wouldnt exist*.
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Another crap sandwich avoiding the constitutional rights of all.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

AGENT J said:
nobody said they were but they have been killed, beaten, fired, desowned, denied employment/housing etc
and the most important part is they have been denied equal, human and civil rights just like blacks and that what this discussion is about so the comparison is 100% accurate and factual.

Facts prove your post wrong again.
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People of faith die everyday throughout the world for their beliefs, stick a sock in it.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

vesper said:
Another crap sandwich avoiding the constitutional rights of all.
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Nobody has a constitutional right to deny services. People have a constitutional right to free exercise of religion and so far the court has not affirmed that extends to denying services to people because they are gay.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

disneydude said:
Bigotry is bigotry is bigotry. Sorry.....
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To be bigoted over sexual orientation is not a constitutional offense. Sorry.....
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

vesper said:
To be bigoted over sexual orientation is not a constitutional offense. Sorry.....
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Why not embrace it? Why be afraid of your true feelings? Just admit that you think gays are the same as child molesters. It will feel so much better when you drop the pretenses and let your true feelings out.
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:113:123:292:647

CriticalThought said:
Nobody has a constitutional right to deny services. People have a constitutional right to free exercise of religion and so far the court has not affirmed that extends to denying services to people because they are gay.
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Only in 21 states. Cheers!
 
Re: Colorado Judge: Bakery Owner discriminated against gay couple [W:123]

CriticalThought said:
Why not embrace it? Why be afraid of your true feelings? Just admit that you think gays are the same as child molesters. It will feel so much better when you drop the pretenses and let your true feelings out.
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You are so disengenous that I can't find the words to accurately describe you. You have taken my words out of context proving you have such a weak argument that was the only way you could counter. Disgusting.
 
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